[reddweb]

Its simple. Do you implement the LAW ? or let law hijacked by emotions/plight? The legal aliens are idiots?. There are literally billions of people living below poverty line, who will sacrifice everything just to come to America - legally!!! Hardships, emotions and empathy has no place when you take into account 300 million citizens who are legally bound to support the system (tax, servcies, public shcools, hopsitals etc)

The real gem of this story is that the Secret Service and Whitehouse staff/security couldn't catch the fake social security card/number, that Vargas submitted.

LoL! If those institutions cant catch, then who can? Anybody can come here illegally and live/work enjoy. The fear (no reason for it) they have is similar to fear we have of accident - it rarely happens but needs vigilance/careful.

[geezer]

If law is unjust, you change the law. It has happened in American plenty of times. Hell, America was founded in part because an unjust law was imposed on us.

[reddweb]

unjust to whom? lets open borders ?

vargas, when he was smuggled into this country, was not "special case" at that time. This is a typical, hallmark fraud case. The coyote, fake passport, fake student visa, fake greencard the list goes on.

you want the Law to be just in above case? i am just saying there needs to be punishment and accountability.

Believe me, the US immigration law is lot better, just and clever than most other countries. There are lot of legal aliens that comply with it, and grateful for the opportunity.

[kelnos]

But in this case, punish whom? Vargas? He was 12 when all this happened, had no say in the matter, and didn't really know what was going on until he turned 16. What should he have done then? Turned himself in as an illegal immigrant?

[reddweb]

That argument can be taken advantage of in lot of situations. I empatize with vargas but unfortunately, as the lawyer said, he needs to get back in line - legally.

He committed 70% of the fraud after turning 16. He is not kid anymore, and be responsible for his situation/actions.

What about legal alien kids who come (sent by parents) here legally for undergrad studies...pay upto 100K in tuition fees, and be sent back if can't get job visa or other legal immigration problems? Wouldn't you argue, this kid knows nothing , he was shown the american dream, he deserves greencard/citizenship?

Lot of other scenarios can be argued.

There is law for a reason, and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

[kelnos]

What about legal alien kids who come (sent by parents) here legally for undergrad studies...pay upto 100K in tuition fees, and be sent back if can't get job visa or other legal immigration problems? Wouldn't you argue, this kid knows nothing , he was shown the american dream, he deserves greencard/citizenship?

This is just further evidence that the system is terribly broken. And, of course, in this case the kid getting sent home still has the illegal immigration option. He/she's no worse off than someone like Vargas, though residing illegally is probably more difficult when you're already on file with the gov't.

There is law for a reason

So you say. Clearly it's not working out very well, or situations like this (and many others) wouldn't pop up so often, and immigration reform wouldn't be a hot-button issue of national importance.

... and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

They can feel however they want to feel; I don't particularly care. They do have one huge benefit over Vargas' situation: they don't live in fear every day that someone will find out about them and they'll get sent back to their birth country.

[CWuestefeld]

There is law for a reason, and 300 millions American citizens and legal aliens abide by it. Do you want make all of them feel idiots?

Obviously you've never dealt with immigration. My wife was a Chinese citizen here on a student visa when we married, and so I've dealt with the process first hand.

It seems to me that most people believe that the process of getting a green card or citizenship is just a matter of filling out a couple forms, going to a notary, and waiting a few months for everything to be approved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and as a result, many people who want to do everything legally, who really try to do so, wind up with an illegal status.

The process involves scores of forms that must be filled out just so. I can tell you from personal experience that figuring out exactly what the INS wanted was a challenge -- for me, an native English speaker who got 680 on the SAT verbal section. It's nearly impossible for non-native speakers, but many of them can't afford a lawyer to help them.

My wife's application was rejected twice. The first was due to confusion about the correct papers to prove marriage. The second was due to improperly collected fingerprints. We went to the State Police to have the fingerprint cards done. Who is better qualified to take good fingerprint samples than the police, right? We were rejected because the NJ State Police are not certified by the INS as fingerprint authorities. It seems that, to get the prints done legally, we had to drive to the duly certified fingerprint authority, some 40 miles away, which turned out to be a camera shop. Her prints were taken by some Indian guy, obviously an immigrant himself, rather than a police officer -- and these were accepted.

On one occasion the wife was at the INS office in NYC Federal Plaza. The woman at the counter was telling wife that something had to be done just so, no exceptions. Wife asked to speak to a manager to try to clear up the misunderstanding -- a perfectly legitimate request in any business. Rather than trying to work with my wife to resolve the disagreement, the worker pushed a little button, and two big burly guys came out of a door and physically removed my wife from the premises, claiming that she was a threat.

Obviously this process is not about a correct and complete application: they are about perpetuating the INS itself, through the fees for fingerprint certifications; shoring up their little fiefdoms, and so on. Anyone who believes that people who are unsuccessful in navigating this bureaucracy are criminals, bad elements that we don't want in our society, is badly mistaken.

[CWuestefeld]

Could whoever downvoted this please explain the rationale?

[geezer]

Unjust to ordinary Americans as well as the immigrants, while favoring businesses. If there was a legal avenue to bring in enough individuals for farm work and other manual labor, there would be far fewer illegals living in the shadows and wages would be higher.

[davepage]

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

[lupatus]

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

[pmb]

"Not too difficult". Hah. http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-...

The shortest route is 10 years.

[pfedor]

It's not true. I got an employment-based green card a little over a year after I set foot in the country.

What is true is that the system is rigged against Indians and Chinese. If you are Indian and don't have a PhD, then yes, you may have to wait 10 years, probably longer in fact. Unlike the hardships of illegal immigrants, this hardly ever gets any attention though.

[icarus_drowning]

I'm an American who has contacts with a group of people who are illegal aliens. We have been trying to go the correct route for years. Trust me when I say it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

The entire reason we have a problem is because there isn't a good way to "do things legally".

[chaostheory]

I had to wait over 8 years to get my citizenship and wade through tons of bureaucracy and paperwork. In my experience it was anything but easy. It took a letter to the governor of my state, asking for help so that I can vote for him; to get things moving. Suddenly everything magically fell into place within two weeks of writing that letter.

It's probably only 'easy' for Canadians.

[rplacd]

In all seriousness, though, would you recommend anyone else do that after being able to prove you've "done your time" in the system?

[chaostheory]

Recommend writing a letter to your governor or local politician? Yes.

Dismantle the bureaucracy that makes immigration so difficult? Yes. I believe in free markets.

[rubashov]

> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best.

May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners.

I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for tribalism. And the story of the 19th and 20th century is the absolute failure of systems of government not oriented around nationalism, and tribe. All over the world empires and larger nations repeatedly broke up into their tribal elements. This is inevitable human nature and fighting it is just stupid. This project of inviting the entire world into the borders of the USA will end in civil war eventually. Enoch Powell was right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Riv...

[jarek]

It might also be worthwhile to mention that the 20th century has seen a nice collection of wars and atrocities done by nation states upon other nations.

[nl]

He had a real social security number. It had work restrictions, so he usually used a photocopy with the restrictions hidden.

[reddweb]

yes he got social security card from SS office but the grounds for it are not valid - making the SS card invalid (when somebody catches him for illegal entry to US).

The secret service is supposed to be able to pull up entire background check - not simply make sure if SSN checkouts against Vargas name.