[sneak]

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing".

Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden?

The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

[zwkrt]

Up until approximately 100-200 years ago (99.999% of humanity’s existence) it was a possibility in most of the world to retreat into complete wilderness and live as a hermit. Now there’s nowhere left to go. We have wilderness but it is owned. We have recluses but they have SSNs and tax burdens and fingerprints. A person who becomes detached from society is put in a mental institution. The result is a kind of cultural fascism/authoritarianism. You MUST live in society, and there is only realistically one to choose from. What an incredibly unprecedented global experiment!

It seems to me that for some the only winning move is not to play.

EDIT: and as I understand it Japan’s culture is especially brutal for some personalities, although I have no first-hand experience. For all the problems we have in the US at least I can be a total wackadoo without feeling like I have failed my entire family and shamed myself and all my acquaintances in the eyes of society.

[burntoutfire]

> it was a possibility in most of the world to retreat into complete wilderness and live as a hermit.

You can still f off into Canadian, Siberian, Amazonian wilderness without the government or anyone else caring about that.

[paulryanrogers]

Urban centers without enough green space can be incompatible with solitude 24/7. Too expensive without roommates, no where outside without other people nearby, possibly only a bathroom or small bedroom without another person in it.

[graeme]

Wikipedia mentions the 80/50 problem. At some point the Hikkomori will be 50, and their parents, their sole means of support, will be 80. The Hikkomori are not capable of supporting themselves and will run into trouble.

I also expect there are health effects to lifelong withdrawal from all social contact and from not leaving one’s room. We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

[justbored123]

Sure, but some people suffer lots of abuse in life just by the way they look or their ethnicity, sexuality, etc (black people, Jewish, LGBT, etc. in bad places like the middle east come to mind). Imagine been Jewish or very obviously gay and effeminate in Saudi Arabia.

Some time it's better to be alone that to be abused. I saw a documentary about this -Hikkomori- and that was one of the guy's point. He took a lot of sht from people first at school, then at work and on the street too because of how he looked, and he got tired of having to put up with random shtty people insulting him every single day for years. It wore him down over the years and at home he only had a mother that didn't seem to be supportive at all until he gave up. You can see it in YouTube, is one of the first results. It's sad that he could not make it work by moving around until he found decent people, but some times you just have bad luck.

[sneak]

> We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

Meant by whom? Perhaps you aren't, but to make that claim for others is to fundamentally deny them their agency, as if they are mentally incompetent. I don't think these people are, for the most part, mentally incompetent.

[graeme]

Solitary confinement is widely considered to be torture, and what studied of Hikkomori exist suggest they have more suicidal thoughts and psychiatric disorders than the average.

The former suggests need for social contact is in our genes. There is a reason monks had monasteries for their life of withdrawal: they still had others around.

There are rare exceptions, the eremetic monks, but overall Hikkomori do not seem content. They are perhaps more comfortable than they felt out in the world, but I strongly suspect they are in a local maximum and could live much more satisfying lives.

[pm90]

I believe there’s research in the social sciences that show that social contact and connections have a very positive impact on people’s health.

Of course, such studies measure the average so each individual’s situation may be different. But it’s also not clear to me why it would be different for such large of a group.

[vsareto]

I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore. It's actually the best possible scenario for getting extremely fit because you don't have a job or social obligations.

[durnygbur]

Yeah you have all the time to sleep well, prepare food and eat healthy, hydrate, stretch and excercise, work on any stimulating however trivial personal projects. What you leave behind is the stress coming from a job, miserable dates and rejections, and any stress related health problems which later on one is desperately tring to resolve with doctors and medical procedures.

[ThrowawayR2]

> "I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore."

Solitary confinement in prisons is known to be detrimental to mental health so that seems most likely to be false.

[luckylion]

That's not something the inmates choose though, they're being forced to be in solitary confinement.

Studies might not be ideal here. How many hermits participate in social studies run at universities?

[justbored123]

Yea, I don't see the problem with it unless the person who is doing it wants to change but can't. These type of people has always existed, they used to be secluded at a monastery and then it was socially acceptable for them to be isolated all of their lives doing little or nothing, reading and "praying" and "meditating" all day.

How is it much better to slave away at a minimal wage job at a McDonald's or a desk job shuffling papers for 40 years surrounded by people that treat you like shit? (service workers have horror stories to tell about bosses and customers alike).

[PragmaticPulp]

> These type of people has always existed, they used to be secluded at a monastery and then it was socially acceptable for them to be isolated all of their lives doing little or nothing, reading and "praying" and "meditating" all day.

Monks are not idle.

Monastic life involves significant amounts of manual labor and service work. There is no comparison.

[sigg3]

People with social anxiety might retreat to their home to feel safe, but that's not the same as it being healthy nor the best option for them.

You might be antisocial, but at least one of the guys in TFA talks of overwhelming shame. It's arguably (perceived or not) external reasons for this self-solitude, possibly a matter of heteronomy rather than autonomy.

Of course it's a societal issue.

Getting these individuals help might just be treating the symptoms, however, if the cause turns out to be a cultural phenomenon. It might require targeted political effort to properly frame and address the real problems.

[crocodiletears]

They contribute to dearth of social participation, declining population, and I'd reckon are a net drain on the country's productivity.

They're symptomatic of something gone very wrong. Withdrawing from the world for a prolonged period shouldn't be so appealing that an entire social class develops around doing so.

Not to say I don't sympathize, ofc.

The problem does seem somewhat overstated though. Wikipedia says ~400,000 people in a population of 125 million.

[rootusrootus]

> Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden?

In the article they mention that the parents pay $8K per year or more for this service.

[ilaksh]

The parents are paying for everything. Food, housing, etc.

To me it seems like this is basically an extreme on a spectrum of people who are struggling. I have always had difficulty socializing and there were years where I lived with my parents and struggled to find an adequate job. For at least two years I had completely given up. And with my poor self-confidence and social skills, I would not often attempt to socialize then or now.

But your income is a huge aspect of your identity in this world. Without any income or a good one, it is going to be hard for anyone to be confident around other people. And with no income for an extended period, that type of shame will make you want to avoid people altogether.

Even the last several years where I have had income from online contract programming, I have basically been a hermit and rarely attempt socializing. I feel that honestly part of it is just that I don't think people are comfortable around me. But a big issue is the poor income and lack of self-confidence that comes with that.

And reinforcing this stuff are my health issues that have caused me years ago to abandon the idea of high-paid stressful jobs. I have not considered a job with a commute in many years.

I feel like what I need is an income about four to six times what seems comfortable for me to maintain. Then I can get out of this financial hole, move back to the United States, pay for good health insurance and hopefully resolve my health issue, and hold my head up high as a property owner.

I am not dependent on other people or totally isolated, but I do avoid socializing. My dream is to design, build, and manufacturer robots, so I am experimenting with computer vision.

What I do not want to do and don't think I could do even if I tried, is a hardcore 9-5 job working for someone else on projects that are a total waste of time. I would rather continue to be poor.

And I will just mention one other thing. Appearance may also factor into this sometimes. Notice that one of the men pictured has mixed blood. That bit of difference that he has could be just one more factor contributing to his isolation. For me, I am quite self-conscious and often am not even sure if my facial asymmetry is in the normal range.