[ceilingcorner]

Yes, it's misleading because it ignores the revanchist reasoning of Russia in favor of simple "Russia bad, Russia invader, Russia imperialist" narratives.

Novorossiya was historically a part of the Russian Empire for a very long time. Russia clearly wants it back. Whether they are justified in getting it or not, I have no comment. But the least we can do is actually understand their reasoning.

[willeh]

And India was part of the British empire, Mexico (then called the viceroyalty of New Spain) a part of Spain and the list goes on. Might makes right belongs to a bygone age and people are entitled to self-determination.

To decline to stand up to dictator - nay, a tyrant - such as Putin makes one a coward undeserving of the liberties they were born with.

[ceilingcorner]

These are not really good examples. India, Mexico, etc. were different cultures with thousands of years of history as independent entities. Novorossiya and indeed large parts of the current political state of Ukraine were a part of "Russia" for hundreds of years. Ukraine itself didn't really exist as a unified state from the end of the Kievan Rus (13th century) until the 20th century and was mostly a battleground between Poland, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire.

Like I said, it's complicated. Does that justify Russia's actions? I don't know and I am deliberately explaining this in a neutral way.

[willeh]

There are plenty of regions in Europe that have similar histories and few countries in Europe are really that old, even states with long histories have not had constitutional orders lasting more than 50 years. Finland was a part of Sweden for 600 years, Denmark part of Norway for an equal amount time. Neither of those facts in any way reduces the Finnish or Norwegian people's right to self determination.

Waging aggressive war is a violation of international law - The state of Ukraine is the legitimate successor to Ukrainian SFR and if Russia has any claims on its territory those must be pursued through legal means.

There is nothing complicated about the Ukrainian question, it is simply a part of Putin's strategy of death by a thousand cuts. Last time that strategy was used Europe was thrown into a conflict that made the world say never again to nationalism. The Russian people would have done well to listen to their grandfathers now that this conflict is all but forgot.

[ceilingcorner]

I don't really know why you're arguing with me. I'm just trying to explain the situation.

With your focus on self-determination: if Ukraine allowed specific regions to hold referendums, it is very likely that many regions would opt to join Russia. Then what?

As I have said numerous times now: it is complicated.

[sergeykish]

Please stop spreading lies. Nothing complicated.

Only fools wants to Russia what it become today. State without justice and fair elections, incredibly poor population, no allies.

They've claimed they are "brothers". We were not ready to fight in 2014, not ready to kill "brothers". Now we know who they are. This war affected everyone in Ukraine. Every citizen have seen struggles and poverty caused by war. We know what become of Donetsk and Luhansk. They are going to destroy other cities too. That's not brothers, that's worst enemies.

My mother language in Russian. Now I hate Russia.

[ceilingcorner]

Pro tip: If you ever want to have a genuine discussion with someone, don’t start off by saying they are “spreading lies.”