Ask HN: Salary Valuation

[Houston]

I need the advice from those who are far more experienced than I am at salary valuations.

Background: I was hired in late February of this year as the copywriter for an Internet marketing company that has seen a lot of success since its inception last year. Since then, my responsibilities have expanded to that of what I'd consider the responsibilities of a product manager.

I'm essentially the jack of all trades for the company. I can pretty much play the role of anyone in the company in the off chance they are out of the office, although my main responsibility remains as a copywriter. However, lately I've been given the ability to hire people as I deem fit to complete projects. Next week, I sit down with my boss (the CEO) and his partner to discuss putting me on salary (I work hourly right now), and I don't know how to go about valuating my skills and the responsibilities I've been given.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. By the way, I'm 19.

[patio11]

You don't get what your skills are worth. You don't get what your responsibilities are worth. You get what you can negotiate. This is the most important lesson about salary.

Your negotiating position is stronger because you're difficult to replace and weaker because the comparable for your salary is your hourly wage. Your bosses have had the milk for nearly free; any price for the cow is going to look expensive by comparison. (For example, if you're currently working for $10/hr and step up to $60k -- which is aggressive but, hey, key employees should be aggressive -- that would cost them on the order of five times more, when factoring in taxes and benefits.)

Oh yeah, benefits. You're 19, so you may not get the importance of this now, but professional white-collar workers either a) get them or b) have an hourly many times what you're making right now so that they can buy them for themselves. Typically this includes healthcare, some retirement option with employer match, paid vacation, and such other perks as may be standard or negotiated.

[Houston]

Thanks for commenting, patio11. Appreciate it!

Without trying to sound like an arrogant blow-hard, I would say I'm one of the most vital employees in the company bar none. As the months pass by, I continue to take on more & more responsibilities & today my boss pretty much confided in me that other than him, I am THE creative force in the company.

When I go into the meeting, I don't want to come off cocky. I want to come off confident, which is why I'm trying to gather as much info as I can about this stuff.

I really think the benefits thing should be factored into the equation. It makes sense, right? I know benefits are necessary. But, how do you quantify that? Just do some research into what it'd cost to buy those benefits myself and factor it in?

[pbreit]

Sorry, I'm going to splash some cold water on this situation. Except for senior management and engineering, pretty much everyone is replaceable. As others have suggested, your currently pay will serve as baseline and it's hard to think anoff would be mre than 20 or 30% above that. But I have two tips for you: 1) ask for a review after 6 months at which point you might be able to earn a raise. 2) if this is a tech startup that you think has a lot of potential and stock options are a component of pay, it might be smart to trade a few k in salary for more than a few k in addiional stock.

[petervandijck]

Baseline isn't so much current pay, but what others in the same company are making (if that applies). That's what makes them think "we can hire someone to do this for X".

[evanrmurphy]

You're in a good position to negotiate for things other than money right now too. Consider what is really valuable to you. Maybe:

1. You're struggling to pay the bills or want to save up. Bargain for the highest salary you possibly can.

2. You're doing well financially; what you really wish is that you had more time for your relationships or to work on your own projects. Negotiate to have extra vacation time, to only work 4 days a week, or whatever you like.

3. Your commute sucks or you don't enjoy being in the office. Negotiate for the ability to telecommute twice a week. (This is also a decent way to address #2, because you have more control over your time when you telecommute.)

These are just a few possibilities. It could literally be anything you want that they can provide. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[adyus]

This subject is very relevant to me, as I'm in a similar position.

I accepted a "full-time freelance" position in a hard time in my life for $15/hr, no benefits, no contract of any kind (contractor). I'm the only developer at an 8-month old, online-only print services provider, so I'd say I'm a pretty important cog.

Since I accepted the "job" I fixed the mess that the original (cheap) web agency made of the site, redesigned the entire UX of ordering prints (now with cropping! sliders! previews!) and will be launching a new e-commerce site that I built from scratch for them in the last couple months. I do server admin, design, development, UX, API, as well as occasional customer service with a smile.

What would the average market price be for the value I can bring to a startup or small business? What are my skills and services really worth? To rephrase that, what hourly range would someone with my skills and knowledge normally charge?

[rb2k_]

Just as a note: this will probably depend on where you live

[adyus]

Alas, nowhere near the centers of IT, but South Florida...

[petervandijck]

What you are your work are "worth" is of little importance.

The ONLY way you are going to get a significant salary raise (where significant is defined as more than they're planning to give you), is if you are ready to walk.

So.

1. Have a number in mind. (ie. what are others similar in the same company making?).

2. They'll offer you less than that.

3. Say: I'm truly sorry, but I can't accept that offer, it would be hurting myself, so I have to respectfully resign. (Don't bluff, mean it)

That's really the best way.

[actionbrandon]

I agree, and also fight for more tangible responsibilities. No offense, but its hard to sell a business owner on why your copy writing is worth X-more dollars than some other guys. Sales or code or ideas that have been implemented with a tangible profit are helpful when asking for more money.

[dustingetz]

things that determine your salary: 1) perceived value of your contributions 2) how much you could make if you left, weighted by the chance that you actually leave

even if boss's perceived value of you is really high, if you don't have the external credibility to actually get another job at the salary you seek, you don't have much bargaining power.

[Houston]

I know there's not some algorithm to determining my salary, but is there a rule of thumb for figuring it out.

Would an average of 1 & 2 result in a good valuation? I can figure out the value of my contribution almost to a T with some things, but there are other things that are a little harder to put a definite value to, i.e the copy I write for our websites.

I want to come into the meeting with research at the ready. And, thanks for bringing up the external credibility aspect. I didn't consider that, so I will have to factor that into everything.

[dustingetz]

well, your self-valuation is 2, and your bosses valuation of you is 1. unfortunately, economics dictates that only your bosses valuation matters. willingness and ability to quit for another job is how you shift the economics in your favor.

if i was your boss, i'd offer you 1, with just enough padding to keep your morale up. However, as you continue to grow, your external credibility increases, which should grow your salary rapidly towards your true value.

how did it go?

[petervandijck]

You need to apply for jobs at other companies first.

[chrisbennet]

Have you considered the option of starting your own internet marketing business?