[chronicsunshine]

Equating the two is ridiculous.

The Capitol Riots were an attempt to overturn a free and fair democratic election in favor of the rioters preferred candidate.

The HK protests are in relation to freedom from the Chinese Government's dictatorial rule.

Democracy is what is most important in both of these situations. The Capitol Riots were anti democracy. The HK protests are pro democracy.

[tablespoon]

> Equating the two is ridiculous.

When someone wants to defend the indefensible, false equivalency seems like the go-to tactic nowadays. It's basically: "After ignoring all the extremely important differences, isn't this thing you like just like this thing you hate? Hypocrite."

[pessimizer]

The classic these are "terrorists" and those are "freedom fighters" trope in real life.

At least refer to both of them as "riots" or both as "protests."

[MsMowz]

I understand your point, but what I was asking for is a non-ideological distinction. Every point you have made is from the ideological position that supports liberal democracy, but those who support people’s democracy would levy the same accusations in reverse. I’m not interested in hearing either of those points of view, because there simply cannot be a productive discussion on those terms.

I would like to understand the empirical situation. You suggest that I’m equating the two, but I’m actually just ignorant on the _substantive_ arguments. If you would be kind enough to enlighten me on that front, I would truly appreciate it.

[delta-v21]

In DC, people tried to overturn the US Congress, which's elected by and representing the American people.

Where in HK, people protested against the HK government which is appointed by the CCP, and the HK legislature where half of the seats are appointed by the CCP and the rest is elected with vetting by the CCP. The HK gov (both exec. + leg. branches) don't represent the HK people, they represent the CCP.

That's the non-ideological distinction. US Congress is authorized by the people. But the HK gov (both exec. + leg. branches) are authorized by the CCP. And unlike US, people in HK have no peaceful way to influence the politics in HK by voting.

[openasocket]

You can't just ignore the ideological elements of this, because they are at the heart of why people feel differently about these events. If I attack someone because I want to rob them, I'm the bad guy. If I attack someone because they are about to hurt some children, I'm the good guy. The only difference here is the intent of both parties, and you can't simply brush that aside because it isn't "empirical".

[FpUser]

>"Democracy is what is most important in both of these situations."

That's what you said. Plenty of people might disagree about what is most important. Your message in general looks very hypocritical in my opinion.

[justicezyx]

To curb this type of simplistic view on Sino-US relationship, and give both sides some light equally:

> free and fair democratic election

Depending on your sources, this can be a questionable statement.

> freedom from the Chinese Government's dictatorial rule.

Depending on your sources, this can be an equally questionable statement. Case in point: most of Chinese mainlander call CCP's rule as people's democracy. And Tiger Yang, the foreign affair chief in CCP, who recently slapped Mr. Blinken, claimed "American Democracy" should not be judged by Americans only, and he believed American Democracy is not fully supported in USA.

[tablespoon]

That kind of comparison relies on leaving the definitions of important concepts undefined. For instance the word "democracy" in "CCP's rule as people's democracy" and "free and fair democratic election" is being used to refer to incompatible things. To an American's ear, the CCP's use is an Orwellian inversion akin to "Freedom is Slavery."

[FpUser]

"To an American's ear, the CCP's use is an Orwellian inversion akin to "Freedom is Slavery"

Frankly speaking the US is not the only country in the world and in this context why would other countries give a f..k about how it sounds to America's ear. They could be backwards in relation to western view on human rights but you can't really tell independent country how they do their things.

[tablespoon]

> Frankly speaking the US is not the only country in the world and in this context why would other countries give a f..k about how it sounds to America's ear.

Undemocratic governments like China's don't, except to muddy the waters and troll.

[FpUser]

If you think that "democratic" countries do not troll and muddy waters I have a bridge to sell.

[danShumway]

> Depending on your sources, this can be a questionable statement.

No it's not. The 2020 election was very clearly not rigged. The Trump campaign had every opportunity to bring evidence out that something was wrong in courts, and they didn't.

The Capital Riot wasn't about people with legitimate doubts who weren't being heard, they were people who's doubts were heard, and then dismissed because they didn't have any real evidence and because their claims were clearly wrong.