Unfortunately for us, nature and evolution "solving problems" frequently involves us all just dying and/or Earth spending a long period of time as a magma ocean and then several aeons as a hot rock.
Should I cry that mother nature doesn't like me? It's not like I can do something about natural disaster(hurricane, flood, earthquake, volcano eruption etc.) killing me.
If a Cat 5 hurricane is heading directly towards you, would you stay and say "If nature wants to kill me it can. Nothing I can do", or would you idk... go somewhere else?
When the tide comes in while you're on the beach, do you stay and accept your fate? Or do you move?
Doing as an individual not as a society. Of course I can go to engineering school and help build defense mechanisms but as an average Joe I can move the needle only so much. I was speaking about a life of an individual not of human society or human civilization.
You can choose to move away (although then you might have to deal with lightning and tornadoes and droughts), or you can choose to live in areas with better code compliance. Those are still in your control.
Yea I or you should evaluate risk factors but there is always a degree of randomness involved. There is no place on Earth you are 100% safe from natural disasters.
No but you should not assume that defaulting to the victim's mindset will help your chances of survival. Your initial comment implied that nature has your best interest in heart; and your child comment is contradicting it?
What's so hard about taking a cautious approach and proactively increase your chances of survival? I.e get to higher grounds (floods), evacuating(hurricanes), get vaccinated (covid + new diseases?), etc.
I don't have time to explain you anymore but I will say this. I'm liberal, pro God and pro Science. I don't have anything against God or nature taking my life away or improving it (evolution) and I don't have anything against defense mechanisms like natural disaster controls or public health measurements like vaccination but I want my freedom. Someone said vaccination is our evolution I agree maybe we are approaching singularity but nobody can forbid me to work or travel because of 1 pathogen. I took all vaccines prior to this but I will not take this one so I can laugh at COVID passport because I live in free Europe and not in Hitler's Europe anymore. If this pandemic is something nearly close to Spanish Flu or Black Plague which took hundreds of millions of lives I would be the first one to take vaccine but not like this.
WHO's dubious approach and dubious rhetoric only made me suspicious. I'm still waiting for their investigation on where and how pandemic originated.
Why do you think this pandemic isn’t worst than the previous? If you gauge by economic impact alone it can be the worst ever. The lower number of lives lost is because of quicker lockdowns, vaccines, advanced health care, and information networks
People should be free to make choices regarding their own body but the notion of "nature" as an anthromorphic problem solver and superiority of genes is pretty out of sync with our reality. There are many augmentations we use to help survive and vaccines are no different. Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive. Going down that route leads to a lot of toxic notions. Writing this during the 15 minutes cool down after getting the first vaccine shot. So I know where I stand.
There is quite a bit of pseudoscience on the internet that people don't really need glasses, they can train their eyes to work without them. See, for instance, the so-called Bates method[0], which had been well-debunked already in the mid-20th-century but, like so many quack claims, got a new life from the web.
>Glasses for instance are not "natural" but I don't see many people arguing that we should only let those with 20/20 vision survive.
I agree with you. Glasses and vaccine are great achievements of human civilization but I raised questions about freedom, biology and moral.
I'm not against vaccination I took many of them as a child and I have glasses which help and enhance me significantly but I'm not for mandatory vaccination or COVID passports that my European Union wants to enforce and I'm not for European Union limiting my human rights. We are going back to the days of Hitler where it was more important who you are "biologically" than looking at the fact that we are all humans and that we all have equal rights.
>However, Covid would be able to cause an infection again once the cold had passed and the immune response calmed down.
>Dr Murcia said: "Vaccination, plus hygiene measures, plus the interactions between viruses could lower the incidence of Sars-CoV-2 heavily, but the maximum effect will come from vaccination."
Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always happen to get infected with rhinovirus near the same time you're exposed to SARS-CoV-2.
>Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always happen to get infected with rhinovirus near the same time you're exposed to SARS-CoV-2.
I agree with you but how safe is mRNA vaccine in the long term? I would rather take "classical" vaccine.
that’s barely freedom of choice. a robber pulling a gun on you and saying your money or your life isn’t what any reasonable person interprets as free will. free will would be not going to jail or being banned from society if you chose not to take the vaccine.
Is there any such discussion about being banned from society or going to jail? That seems incredibly hyperbolic. What I've heard is discussions of things like cruises and international travel to certain destination, which are entirely optional activities.
Funny, I’m the opposite. I would have no significant reservations if it wasn’t for the creepy fascist vibe oozing from beneath the facade of “science”.
As it stands, I’ll go to war today and die to guarantee my and your and everyone’s right to refuse, should TPTB actually try anything that stupid. Shouldn’t be a problem though, the people in favor seem to be mostly bullies making noise. They tend to shut up when you let them know that their only path forward is to start, and then try to win, a war.
"I believe the vaccine works and I'll die for your right not to take it" is one hell of a take, and I'm just happy there really aren't that many of you out there.
You may want to remove the link in your profile where you express skepticism that we'll hit millions of deaths worldwide, as it's going to make people question your already questionable viewpoints even more.
It's hardly a surprise that someone who believes strongly in personal freedom might fight to defend it for (what are supposedly) liberal societies, especially given that several very large wars of the 20th century (hot and cold) are often described as fights for freedom, and usual for the freedom of of others and of all.
This is basically the default position of every liberal (not in the misapplied American parlance) for at least 150 years now and surely far longer.
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.”
> skepticism that we’ll hit millions of deaths worldwide
Here’s the exact quote from the blog, in case any bystanders suspect that this person might not be arguing in good faith:
“Personally I don’t think that millions of healthy people will ever drop dead from one of these diseases in the space of a year, like they once did from a flu in 1918.”
> I’m just happy there really aren’t that many of you out there.
Should it come to the point where “dying for rights” is a real thing again (in America), I guess you’ll find out.
No one is holding people down and injecting them with a vaccine. Everyone has the right to refuse. But society also has a right (and an obligation) to ensure that externalities are costed appropriately. You refusing a vaccine is a choice, but it also negatively affects others around you.
Whether its in the form of tax penalties, barred admission from public services, vaccination "passport" campaigns, or what have you, there needs to be a cost to associated with the damage your personal decision does to our society. If refusing a vaccine is truly that important to you, you are welcome to pay the cost. But I suspect many anti-vaxxers are simply societal freeloaders whose "principles" will melt away when they actually cost them something.
I share your skepticism. Vaccines are a relatively new technology, with various buggy vaccines coming out that were actually more harmful than helpful. Time will tell if the mRNA "Vaccine" will be a net positive. I am totally okay with other people injecting whatever they want in their bodies, as long as they don't try to make me do it, too. I would rather die of natural causes than a rushed-to-market product.
What do you mean "Vaccines are a relatively new technology"?
We've had vaccines since 1796 [0] when Edward Jenner developed a vaccine for smallpox, a terrible disease that we fully eradicated thanks to vaccination. A disease that you and me don't have to worry about because of vaccines.
(Likewise for Cholera, Tetanus, Polio, Tuberculosis, Meningitis, etc)
Also, trains, cars, planes, cameras, lightbulbs and every invention of Edison are newer technologies than vaccines.
Maybe they mean "mRNA vaccines"? COVID vaccine is the first of this kind, so some side effects, especially long term ones, are still unknown. It's still unlikely that they would be very serious but we won't know for sure until 10 years from now.