[cbmuser]

Brazil is bad example, they have much more serious social problems.

Compare with any European country and you will see that gun control works.

Of course, there will always be criminals who will acquire illegal guns, but overall it’s much harder to get a gun.

If your standard is 100% efficiency, you could make everything legal including murder, because making murder illegal doesn’t avoid it by 100%.

[theodric]

Switzerland is shall-issue for semi-auto and may-issue for full automatic. Gun crime is microscopic. Culture plays a major part.

[africanboy]

That, but also Swiss are rich and are an exception in the entire World.

But looking at the numbers to add more context: Switzerland is very different from USA.

First of all gun ownership in Switzerland is around 25%, it's over 40% in USA.

Secondly, 25% of Swiss own a firearm, not a gun, in USA gun ownership (meaning a gun) is at 22℅

In Italy gun ownership is at 12% and gun deaths are almost zero, as in Switzerland most of the legally owned firearms are rifles for hunting purpose, kept locked in a cabinet.

Nobody in Switzerland sleeps with their gun under the pillow and nobody thinks it's a solution to crime, that's the biggest difference.

[anfilt]

I am sorry what? You predicate your statement by saying Switzerland is rich... I am sorry but those who are not “rich” should also be allowed to own firearms. Predicating ownership by wealth is just classist.

[africanboy]

I don't predicate ownership, first of all.

Secondly: Americans own too many guns and that's stupid.

third: USA is the richest country in the Worlsd and the largest owner of guns on the planet, so please don't make it a class issue, because it's really not.

Finally: Swiss are rich, they have an higher education on average so they don't end up shooting each other on the street like in the USA, were they think that owning firearms is a solution to poor education.

The only 2 places in Europe where there have been domestic mass shootings that were not terroristic attacks are Switzerland and Norway, not surprisingly the two countries that own more firearms.

Guns are bad. It's a fact.

[giardini]

africanboy says "Nobody in Switzerland sleeps with their gun under the pillow ..."

And you know this how?

[africanboy]

Because I am from Italy and lived in Zurich for 4 years.

You really thought that an African boy couldn't possibly know? Seriously?

[giardini]

africanboy says>"You really thought that an African boy couldn't possibly know? Seriously?"

It has nothing to do with "an African boy". You could be a 10-year-old South American pogo referee and I still would not believe that you have the slightest idea of how many Swiss sleep with or w/o pistols beneath their pillows! Seriously!

[ceilingcorner]

I always find it odd how Europe is used as an example of gun control success. Especially when it comes to the issue of oppressive governments.

World War 2 happened less than a century ago. During Weimar and the 1930s, pretty strict gun laws were put in place.

[pintxo]

This might be because we are still waiting for a conclusive argument how wide-spread gun ownership would have prevented WW2.

Hint: Hitler was legally voted into power. It's not that the Nazis had guns and the rest of the country was in fear to oppose them.

[ceilingcorner]

That's a counterfactual argument. It is by definition unprovable. I said that Europe shouldn't be considered a gun control success, not that if there were guns, WW2 would have been prevented.

During the Weimar era and the Nazi era, gun control laws were put into place. That is a historical fact.

Also, hint: saying that Hitler was voted into power as if it were an average democratic vote deeply misunderstands the situation. I suggest reading more about the era, specifically Ian Kershaw's book.

[blackshaw]

> Also, hint: saying that Hitler was voted into power as if it were an average democratic vote deeply misunderstands the situation.

This is correct.

Richard Evans's The Coming of the Third Reich is excellent too.

[pintxo]

I might have miss understood your argument, but to me it reads like you wanted to imply that the implementation of gun controls ~lead to~ supported fascism and ultimately lead to WW2.

> I always find it odd how Europe is used as an example of gun control success. Especially when it comes to the issue of oppressive governments.

> World War 2 happened less than a century ago. During Weimar and the 1930s, pretty strict gun laws were put in place.