[samblr]

>> B12.. So take this with a healthy dose of skepticism

Absolutely this.

Meat is so highly nutritionally dense - vegans you have no clue.

I was a vegan for 20 years of my life. I thought it was env friendly, ethical, bla-bla-bla and had my mum as a company at home while growing up in this seriously flawed cult.

And then I figured that I was not only b12 border line deficient but also in other b-vitamins. And the list continued to Iron, zinc etc. As a vegan you can still get most vitamins other than the most important b12. Even if you can get other vitamins from vegan, you will have to eat a lot to get the same nutrients as in a simple steak!

Since turning into meat, my life has gotten 10 times better probably. Although I prefer to prepare it at home only and have it just once/twice a month.

[rewq4321]

> I thought it was env friendly

It is.[0][1]

> And then I figured that I was not only b12 border line deficient

You "figured" that you were deficient? Were you supplementing B12, or eating fortified foods (e.g. most soy milk brands)?

> Even if you can get other vitamins from vegan, you will have to eat a lot to get the same nutrients as in a simple steak!

No, you just need to eat a normal amount, calorically speaking, and make sure you supplement B12 (and vitamin D if you don't get enough sun).

[0] https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local

[samblr]

Thanks for those links. Sorry, I meant to say, I was in borderline to being deficient. Because I understand, once you are B12 deficient, you have to take those b12 injections all life. And I learnt it from a blood test and from physcian.

However, it really depends on what the family gene-stocks looks like for these vitamins and how well one can absorb those vitamins. For example, the iron in meat is mighty absorbable compared to say when you eat anything in vegan.

So I would like to urge Vegans to be highly highly skeptical.

[shlant]

I think instead of "skeptical" you should say "not assume you are automatically getting the nutrients they need". There is no need for "skepticism" - a well planned vegan diet is healthy at all stages of development.

[Daho0n]

Maybe but if most vegans are not healthy then eating vegan is at best "healthy if..." which isn't any better than keto or other diets. Eating vegan is great but just like other non-normal diets it requires bloodwork from a doctor regularly.

>" Vegans showed a significantly lower mean serum iron level (p < .001) and vitamin B12 (p < .001). Wound diastasis was more frequent in vegans (p = .008). After 6 months, vegan patients had a higher modified SCAR score than omnivores (p < .001), showing the worst scar spread (p < .001), more frequent atrophic scars (p < .001), and worse overall impression (p < .001)."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32769530/

[rewq4321]

> Maybe but if most vegans are not healthy

It's well documented that vegans, on average, live longer than omnivores (even controlling for exercise level, smoking, etc), and I don't think there's any evidence that vegans are more nutritionally deficient than omnivores - in fact, I think there's evidence for the opposite.[0] Though I agree that we preface diets with "healthy if..." I think the standard western diet is more in need of that prefix.

[0] "Mean intakes of fiber, vitamins A, C, and E, thiamin, riboflavin, folate, calcium, magnesium, and iron were higher for all vegetarians than for all nonvegetarians. Although vegetarian intakes of vitamin E, vitamin A, and magnesium exceeded that of nonvegetarians (8.3 ± 0.3 vs 7.0 ± 0.1 mg; 718 ± 28 vs 603 ± 10 μg; 322 ± 5 vs 281 ± 2 mg), both groups had intakes that were less than desired. The Healthy Eating Index score did not differ for all vegetarians compared to all nonvegetarians (50.5 ± 0.88 vs 50.1 ± 0.33, P = 0.6)." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21616194/

[shlant]

> most vegans are not healthy

What is your criteria and evidence for this?

> Eating vegan is great but just like other non-normal diets it requires bloodwork from a doctor regularly

what is a "normal" diet?

[samblr]

I was like this when I was a vegan :)

[shlant]

like what? can you elaborate?

[sinistro25]

I wonder if vegans can drink human milk, might not be the best diet for babies. So not all stages of development I guess.

[shlant]

> I wonder if vegans can drink human milk

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you asking if human milk is considered vegan?

> So not all stages of development I guess.

Almost all of the most reputable health organisations disagree[1]

1. https://vegetarianism.stackexchange.com/a/1079

[sinistro25]

I just think that making babies vegan and forbidding then of drinking their mother's milk might not be the best approach.