[zzleeper]

[Meta]

Funny to see that your post has been grayed out, even though it's logical and makes a point. I would expect people who disagree to reply instead of downvoting. And yes, even though your topic is controversial, it passes the guidelines criteria.

[dstein]

Yeah if anyone can point out why Apple will be able to continue it's dominance over mobile apps with a 30% tax I'd really like to hear why.

[ThomPete]

Because their platform is superior to everything else out there. Because mobile apps is not even close to providing proper user experience.

People expect snappy as hell execution on the iOS, the actual flow of the app is often more important than the looks. And in my experience the web apps just aren't there yet.

Apple make no money on the app store it more or less goes to operations. You can call it a tax or you can be honest and call it what it is. The price of keeping a well structured market place.

[dstein]

Valid points, but the subscription tax is on top of application delivery fees. That's going too far, and I think we're about to see a watershed event where nearly all publishers begin to flee the App Store. Watch it happen.

[ThomPete]

But here is the question.

Do people buy the iPad because of the magazines or the magazines because of the iPad?

In other words. Does it really make a difference if they leave? Is that really anything to worry about? Will that really mean the end of native apps?

Again apple is not depending on the subscription apps to make money. It's the other way around.

[recoiledsnake]

>Again apple is not depending on the subscription apps to make money. It's the other way around.

Won't their value diminish if there no apps and no content to subscribe to, except through Safari? Why do you think Jobs advertizes 400K apps with a tile of icons on screen?

What if Netflix and Kindle were yanked on June 30? Many people buy iDevices just to access those. Will be interesting June 30th

[Steko]

"If there was no apps and no content"

"if there no apps and no content to subscribe to"

What world do you live in where this is even remotely possible? By all means Go Galt, there are plenty of others willing to step in and make millions off iphone owners.

[guelo]

If FT fans expect snappy iOS apps and all they can get is a substandard HTML app don't you think they'll considering ditching iOS when their contract is up?

[recoiledsnake]

Would be interesting if FT put a FAQ on a page for mobile apps regarding why there's no iOS version.

[sid0]

Because their platform is superior to everything else out there.

This seems like opinion presented as fact. I've used iOS and currently own an Android phone, and there's no doubt in my mind that the Android UX is miles ahead of the iOS UX. Of course, I include things like a browser with sync to desktop (Firefox) in my definition of UX, since things like that affect the experience I have while using the product quite a bit.

[ThomPete]

When I talk about the platform I am talking about the whole lot. The ecosystem that ties it all together. Surely you won't argue that Google makes more money on mobile ecosystem than apple does on theirs.

[sid0]

Why does a corporation I have no stock in making more money than another corporation I have no stock in make the platform superior?

[biafra]

Or what about a browser that you do not have to scroll sideways to read anything?

It amazes me that the current (iOS5 SDK Simulator) browser still is unable to do reflow of text.

At least it can open links in the background now. Thank god!

[drivebyacct2]

Sadly, you will find that HN tends to be very anti-Android from a UI perspective. Haven't you noticed the praise of the notification system and other changes to iOS that have existed in Android for ages. Or the obsession with iMessage despite the existence of Google Voice.

At one point in time, iOS was prettier than Android. Too few HNers have actually used Froyo or Gingerbread to understand the UI improvements that have occurred and too many use Android as a dev platform or played with a phone in a store to understand the power of actual multitasking or the power of the back button.

[Steko]

Contrary to what you think I'd guess most HNers have some experience with 'actual multitasking' on real computers. Most of them understand that it's easier to enable it fully then to enable it in a highly limited fashion. Most of them understand that "actual multitasking" is not the holy grail of computing. Most of them realize that Apple has disabled "actual multitasking" in favor of superior battery life. And most of them do have experience with Froyo or Gingerbread phones since ~75% of android phones are running Froyo plus.

[drivebyacct2]

My comment wasn't about multitasking, but it was nice of you to focus on it. As for the apologizing for Apple's half-baked multitasking is fine, I'm very glad you're happy with what you're allowed to do on your phone. My battery life is quite fine, thank you, I frankly had thought we were past that excuse.

The bit about multitasking was merely a remark that everything Apple does is magic, even here on HN where I usually expect better. iMessage is magic (despite doing what Google Voice does with less features). iOS multitasking is magic (and a clone of Android's minus some features). Notifications are obvious in iOS 5. They even have the gall to intro notifications, a near exact clone of them in Android and then less than five minutes later, jeer that their competitors will steal from them. iCloud API? Oh cool, almost like the cloud backup feature offered in Froyo. Apple has great stuff, I'm just tired of everyone acting like Steve himself invented all of it. And I'm tired of the default assumption that iOS is easier to use than Android. (It's just like Windows/Mac. I took my mom to KC and to the Apple store and had her play with an iPhone. She had a very hard time using it, she was used to the Android way. Just like iOS users are confused by my phone.)

Truth be told, I don't have a problem with Apple's multitasking implementation. I think it's limited, some apps that I use daily don't and never will exist in iOS because APIs simply don't exist that would allow them to be functional. That's fine. I was talking from a UI/UX standpoint. I can switch between apps, or have an application launch another via Intent, and they work as a user would expect. And the back button and long-press-home work as users would expect them to. This is not the case with iOS, there is no parallel to Intents and going between applications to share data for any sort of "process" that a developer might want. That was more my indictment. I wasn't looking for the generic age-old Apple v Google v "stealing" debate. I can go have that anywhere with anyone.

And I'm sure that "most" of HN has experience with Froyo+, but my doubts come in about those that downvote those that like the Android UI or the ones that imply that Android looks bad or is unsuable. It's these people that either haven't actually used an Android device in the last year or longer, or didn't bother trying to use it for more than a minute. I've still yet to hear an actual indictment of the current Android UI/X or why iOS's is so vastly superior. (which is what we were actually talking about)

[MrScruff]

Sadly, you will find that HN tends to be very anti-Android from a UI perspective.

I read comments like this a lot, and I don't really understand them. There is no such thing as HN, just a bunch of people posting with differing opinions - including yourself. There are plenty of Android die hards here just as there are Apple/iOS ones.

Also, people who post on HN tend to be passionate consumers and producers of technology. It's silly to pretend they don't understand the trade offs of permitting preemptive multitasking on a mobile device or the use of a back button.

[recoiledsnake]

Consumers don't know and don't care about it until it affects them. Apple has been picking on the small guys like Readability and Flow reader. https://www.iflowreader.com/Closing.aspx while silently approving updates to Kindle and Netflix.

Let them go after Netflix and Kindle with the shakedown (June 30th is the deadline).

[matwood]

Let them go after Netflix and Kindle with the shakedown (June 30th is the deadline).

What happens to the big boys will be telling. I don't think 30% across the board is going to stay. For a small developer the 30% is probably worth it to get into the store, a small amount of visibility, payment processing, and quick customer access.

For the big content providers like NF, HBOGO, WSJ, NYT, Kindle, etc... who already spend huge amounts of money on payment systems, advertising and support the 30% is an additional middle man that provides little actual value. I think at least for the big content providers Apple will blink because at the end of the day Apple needs content more than the content needs them.

[caf]

It's entirely possible that they've already cut a deal with these guys... commercial-in-confidence, of course.