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by ogre_codes 1934 days ago
> Initial price tag: ICEs and HEVs win by a large margin

Teslas compete quite well in terms of features and performance with other cars in its price range. If you aren't looking for a high performance car with luxury affordances, then you are out of luck. But if you are shopping for a $40k+ car, the Teslas compete quite well.

Tesla has been rapidly stealing market share from BMW, Mercedes, and other luxury brands for the past few years. This is why over the past 3 years ICE manufacturers are suddenly taking EVs far more seriously. As Tesla has moved down-market, they've stolen share at every step.

With the Cybertruck and Tesla's coming $25k car coming down the pike, they are going to have cars in most every market in the US. And the Cybertruck is price and feature competitive with other 4 door trucks.

If the rumors that the US is going to restore subsidies for Tesla, then thing will turn quite lopsided against ICE vehicles quickly.

> Cabin noise: only in city driving, on highway most of noise comes from road and wind;

Luxury cars which are as expensive as the Tesla have done a tremendous job isolating the engine noises. But you are claiming ICE cars are quiet and "win by a large margin" on price, and in that category, things aren't even close. As soon as the grade gets over 5% or you need to pass, the 4 banger in that $30k Civic is making itself known.

> the cost of driving 100km is lower in a HEV or diesel

I love how EVs have to compete favorably against every aspect of every non EV. Diesels and HEVs are not much less expensive than EVs. Diesels are particularly loud.

EVs are obviously far more interesting when you can charge them at home at lower power rates. That said, here in the states anyhow, charging my Tesla from 0 to 100% at a Supercharger costs less than half what it costs to fill my Subaru for a similar amount of milage.

1 comments

Fair point about Tesla. Basically you have to pay a lot for a car with such performance, so the price of battery vs the price of a powerful enough really big ICE is attractive. But that's still a niche of the market, most people don't buy cars in this price range. Tesla might have premium performance and nice handling but is still not comparable to established luxury brands in other areas like quality of assembly and materials, so it is not 100% fair comparing the price.

> Diesels and HEVs are not much less expensive than EVs.

Not yet, at least not in Europe. HEVs are very close to ICEVs now, particularly when comparing to a car with automatic transmission or a diesel. But EVs of the same make are typically 30%-50% more expensive, if not additionally donated by government programs or not getting any preferred taxation. That's why they got popular more in countries that offered big donations / tax discounts (e.g. Norway).

Example: 2021 Hyundai Ionic Hybrid costs $24k, but a fully electric version starts at $33k. That's over 30% more. I could buy gasoline for over 15 years of driving for that.

I think fundamentally ICE vehicles have lots more choice right now. Tesla only competes in a few small segments.

At the price points they are competing in, Tesla has a competitive price offering (particularly if you are looking for performance). But there is a huge price umbrella below the base M3.

I'm not sure other EVs can say the same. The Bolt is in this weird territory where it's well priced for an EV, but it's not particularly well priced otherwise. Likewise the Nissan Leaf. I haven't seen or dealt with the VW.

It is very shrewd of Tesla to stick to price points where they can compete effectively. Focusing on places where they can sell vehicles which are competitive on merits allows them to sell vehicles as quickly as they produce them.