[belly_joe]

I feel the sound -> stress connection palpably. Especially sudden loud noises like a horn honking cause me to feel upset for a long while after being startled.

Seems like a convincing argument to me for car-free spaces, although honestly I just wish we had stronger social norms against unnecessarily using a car's horn.

[vladvasiliu]

This was interesting for me, too. At the end of 2017 I moved into a new apartment, with a great view on a very busy road. I immediately felt much more "off". Maybe stressed in a way, but since I'm not usually the stressed kind, I had a hard time identifying the feeling.

At around the same time, the AC in the office developed a constant hum. This drove me nuts.

When I went to my parents' house in the suburbs, I could hear the silence and really, really enjoy it. I realized that basically, during a regular day, I could never get to spend a moment in silence. There would always be some kind of noise: traffic outside my apartment window, metro / bus / traffic during the commute, random people talking / AC hum at the office.

This made me wonder whether all the people that I see around me being constantly angry and "on the edge" might be that way in part because they basically never catch a break. They are constantly under this continuous noise. And I don't think we can really get used to it. I remember a friend said that I'd get used to the noise when I would complain. It's more than 3 years later, and it still annoys to me no end. I may sometimes forget the noise is there, but I think it still has its effect on my stress level. It's not like getting used to lifting weights or something to which the body adapts.

[x3iv130f]

It was a culture shock for me as a Californian to visit Tokyo. In my mind cities are dirty, loud, and dangerous.

Tokyo despite being one of the densest and busiest cities in first world countries is incredibly clean, quiet, and safe.

[0_____0]

Can you say a little bit more about this? What's the difference in how the cities are structured that makes this so?

[avidiax]

Very strong mass transit systems, so there are fewer cars on the road.

The cars that are on the road tend to be quite new, which is a result of a stringent mandatory inspection after a car gets older that makes it more economical to export the car and buy a new one. So cars are typically in excellent repair, with a small economical engine. The driving culture is generally conservative. People don't race each other, compete for the loudest exhaust, roll coal, etc.

[calvano915]

The cities are much more walkable as well. It was mind-blowing to use Google Maps for walking and transit door to door including specific numbered staircases for train stations with precise to the minute schedules for the trains.

[bostonvaulter2]

I think partially they just care more. I remember when I visited Tokyo on a trip and would always see a decibel monitor on construction sites. I believe there was also a sign indicating the acceptable level of noise based on the time of day.

[neves]

Ear plugs are and one of the greatest inventions of humanity :-)

No joking: I use to work, sleep, public transport, and every time I want some piece of mind.

[ryandrake]

I've always thought of ear plugs as the quintessentially American solution to the problem. Here we have people tragedying all over the commons, and the solution is for individuals to all individually purchase a mitigation for themselves, instead of attempting to prevent the problem in the first place. Same for water pollution. Problem: the water supply is polluted. Americanized solution: Everyone needs to buy filters for their tap or boil their water. Real solution: Regulation to prevent the pollution in the first place.

[mancerayder]

It's worse - if someone has a loud party late at night or plays music loudly and you ask them to turn it down, you're the bad one for imposing and butting into someone's business.

[kamih]

Noise pollution is a form of torture. I don't understand why our society doesn't fight it more. I've tried earplugs but they are very uncomfortable to sleep with, and usually give me dizziness the next day.

[johnchristopher]

I have stopped explaining people how my neighbor's friends honking when coming in and leaving drives me up the wall. There's the sound and then there's the rage from "that was fucking useless to do, you just spent 15 minutes saying goodbye on the doorstep, it 11PM, please be quiet" but I am the grumpy one. So I say nothing anymore.

Fun thing is, when I am in the city, I like opening the windows in summer and car noises don't bother me much because it's normal and part of the scenery.

But then I am perfectly capable of putting on my pajamas past 10PM, climb down the stairs from the flat to the street, knock on the car's window and ask the driver to turn off the engine because the low humming noise I hear in my bed is driving me insane. It's when the sound is useless and could be easily prevented that I get crazy. Misophonia very much also.

[dazc]

Maybe it's the lack of consideration that annoys you more than the noise itself?

[remir]

Not the parent, but that's the main reason for me. I can tolerate loud noises like thunder, road work, renovation in the building (at reasonable hours, of course) without much of an issue.

However, stuff like

- Modified motorcycle that makes an insane amount of noise for no intelligent reasons

- People playing bassy music that resonate across the walls of the entire building (low frequencies)

- Constant pop music everywhere you go

Are seriously getting on my nerves.

[johnchristopher]

Definitely, should have written it down in my comment rather than describing my experience. This is a huge aspect of what grinds my gears.

But there's also some speech patterns that get on my nerves in public transport and it's not really (at least most of the time) a lack of consideration from the people though (but it happens way less often).

[chrbr]

Yeah, that's the part that gets me too - the lack of consideration. I live near a hospital and have zero problem with the near-constant sirens, but people gunning their loud engines at stoplights will cause me to rage.

[firstfewshells]

Well, I hope you never have to travel to India where people honk when the red light is on. Why? Coz they're bored and they "want" the light to turn green.

[fwn]

For the sake of the people living in India we probably all hope that such norms fade over time.

I've read about an experiment where increasing the noise level of carhorns on the inside of the car reduced horn usage significantly. Maybe there's some smart way to use tweaks like that in future regulation.

[airstrike]

I have this wild pet idea that we should be have a meter connected to a car's horn and at the end of the year you have to pay a bill for the amount you used. Something like $0.10 / second. You'll still honk when you need to but think twice before using it to annoy other drivers.

[flycaliguy]

I like your thinking but the dystopian reality would be a wealthy elite class of honkers giving us all heart attacks.

[teddyh]

Scale it by income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-fine

[ricardobayes]

Spanish drivers surely go bankrupt after a week :) It's common here to toot the horn to greet a friend. And since everyone knows everyone, everyone toots all the time.

[dgrcode]

Well not everywhere in Spain, but definitely in some places. I lived in a small town where that was the case. Some people used to meet at a small shop just in front of my house and cars would honk all the time just to say hi.

They would then stop the car and actually talk with them, but honking was somehow mandatory

[r00fus]

The unintended consequences of this are clearly bad, but is there a less invasive approach? Are horns actually a required security item? If so, how can we prevent overuse?

[learnstats2]

When I'm cycling, my voice is more useful than a bell (in an urgent situation) - more instantly responsive for me to use, easier for others to locate and interpret, etc.

[learnstats2]

> Something like $0.10 / second

This is a low enough cost that I bet people would use and hold their horn for longer, to show their annoyance in $.

[airstrike]

OK, $0.10 / second growing exponentially at 100% per second or use the Day-fine as someone else proposed

[Guest42]

Agreed. I also don’t like it when locking a car via remote causes the horn to go off and in order to make sure people hit it multiple times.

[stevenpetryk]

There's someone who does this every day outside my apartment at around 7:15. It is infuriating. 4-5 loud, inconsistently-spaced honks "just to be sure" when I'm sure their car locks silently on the first request. Most modern cars only beep if you lock them twice.

[RootReducer]

A neighbor used to come home from work late at night and lock their doors three or four times, and every time it would wake me up. I wish there was a silent door lock and it would just flash the headlights.

[emdashcomma]

My car lets me configure it to work that way. It's one of my favorite features. I haven't heard it honk on lock in years.

[exac]

Most cars have this if you look in the user manual. Even old cars with no graphical radio have konami-code-like sequences of button presses you can input to turn them off.

[dazc]

Maybe no surprise to learn that, for a person who thinks it acceptable for the horn to sound for no real reason, this would be considered far too much effort?

[PurpleFoxy]

I’m in Australia and I have never seen a car that doesn’t lock this way, you hear a slight mechanical latching sound and the lights flash.

[csunbird]

Cars in Europe lock silently.

[Karawebnetwork]

New cars are starting to replace this with a less intense "beep beep". I was agreeably surprised when I locked my 2020 car and it didn't honk at me.

[Arrath]

I turn off the audible alert on lock. Flashing the lights is plenty, why be obnoxious and add noise to the soundscape? I can hear the locks click, anyway.

[benhurmarcel]

Is that limited to the US? In Europe I don't see cars do that; usually the lights blink but it doesn't make large sound.

[kiliantics]

> I just wish we had stronger social norms against unnecessarily using a car

I feel the same way but with the sentence stopping here

[croddin]

Electric cars are starting to get cheaper than ICE cars and that should contribute to making cities quieter in general.

[kiliantics]

yeah but it won't change how hostile cities are to the people on foot or on bikes, or how much land is destroyed to make way for urban sprawl and other road infrastructure, only a reduction in car use will change that

[defterGoose]

That's all well and good, but the horn is, at its core, a safety device. What we really need is for law enforcement to start actually enforcing the laws we have on the books against things like loud stereos and mufflers. These are far more disruptive, especially at night when most people are trying to sleep. I'd even go so far as to posit that the link discussed between noise and heart health is actually via psychological stress, rather than physiological stress.

[eyelidlessness]

This seems very location specific. Where I grew up (DC suburbs) sound systems and loud engine noise were common and I’d agree with you that was the problem.

Where I live now (Seattle) neither are common but traffic congestion and impatient drivers are. Horns aren’t used for safety, they’re used to communicate crowded aggressive driving.

I agree with GP that for this scenario restricting cars overall is a better solution. The laws on the books certainly apply but they’re only enforceable in a meaningful way if you have traffic cops on every arterial. And that’s not something I think anyone wants.

> I'd even go so far as to posit that the link discussed between noise and heart health is actually via psychological stress, rather than physiological stress.

Why is this even a distinction? The psychological stress leads to the physiological stress impact on heart health.

[pharmakom]

A simple solution would be to require car companies to make the horn as loud inside the vehicle as it is outside.

However, general motor traffic noise - tyres, engines, displaced air - is loud enough to be a serious problem anyway.

I don't know how we solve this. Car dependency is so ingrained in our collective consciousness; is it politically feasible to find a way out?

[avidiax]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-noise-camera-trial-to...

Noise cameras. Just like a speed camera, but it measures noise levels and issues a ticket in the mail. There's unfortunately a regressive element (some people can't afford to fix their noisy exhaust), but I see no reason not to issue tickets for noise outside of normal hours, e.g. 7am-10pm.

[jodrellblank]

I'd guess that most people working "outside of normal hours" are doing it by necessity doing some kind of low wage job, and therefore poorer. e.g. anyone who works in restaurants or bars or music or nightlife after 10pm, taxi drivers, pizza delivery, Uber drivers, 24/7 gas station and supermarket employees, security guards, delivery truck drivers, garbage collectors, train drivers, etc.

[Karawebnetwork]

I wonder if ear plugs help at all. My partner snores so I wear them at night.

Even then, sometimes I get woken up by the low frequencies of large trucks idling (snow removal operations, mostly). The vibrations are not even felt in my ears but through my entire body.

[jeanofthedead]

When earplugs fail (as in the case of neighbor's bass, partner's snoring, or rambunctious nocturnal pets), I highly recommend the Bose SleepBuds II. Best purchase of the year for me, and my sleep tracking apps have proven to me that these things work. Might be worth looking into.

[Karawebnetwork]

This is amazing. I am surprised I never noticed this product before. I even tried to sleep with my Bose headset (this was unsuccessful as it's hard to sleep with those on.)

Have you tried it? Do you consider it would block the loud snoring of a large man?

The website says it's not active noise canceling but noise masking. My ear plugs are masking 38dB and the snoring makes it through. So I am worried that I would end up hearing heavy snoring with a musical background.

[RootReducer]

This is my issue too. Earplugs don't help for idling trucks, or subwoofers. Nothing I've found does.

[frankish]

I strongly empathize. I usually wait a few seconds, then just flash my high beams for most situations.