[whywhywhywhy]

Just doesn’t have the same sensation, I’ve tried all the latest modern vegan stuff and it just replaces things that actually would be the lighter more flavorful parts of the meal with stodge.

There is no vegan food alternative to say a rare steak or raw tuna which is extremely flavorful, nutritious and light.

[happyhardcore]

I've found that the cheaper processed meats (chicken, burgers etc.) have the most convincing plant-based alternatives, usually from soy protein. Any seafood or dishes where the meat is the main flavour such as steak there's just no alternative that comes anywhere close; same goes for vegan alternatives to cheese. What I found most helpful when going vegetarian was realising that it's not an all-or-nothing type situation, and if I can go completely vegetarian except for eating tuna or steak a couple times a month then that's better than not trying at all, even though that's not an argument I've really seen repeated all that much on the internet.

[cloudier]

It looks like your stance has a name: https://www.lesswasteworld.com/blog-1/2019/4/24/low-impact-e...

reducitarian: reducing proportion of non vegetarian meals without complete elimination

Some strategies for achieving this include meatless Mondays, weekday vegetarian meals or sticking to vegetarian meals at home.

[chrischen]

That’s like saying there is no animal faster than a horse for transportation... until you realize you don’t need animals at all to get you to your goal. Yes you can’t replace the experience of a steak, but you can replace the satisfying meal with something non-meat (I’m not vegetarian).

I agree imitation meat usually tastes like crap but I’ve had great vegan fried chicken in Japan where I didn’t even know it was not meat until after the meal. That and just getting used to all the non-meat stuff you can eat (ramen, MSG, bean curd, legumes, kimchi). In American cuisine i think of vegan food as imitation meat and stramed veggies...

I think what most people associate with meat is actually the flavors that go into the meat-centric dish most cuisine is based on.

[whywhywhywhy]

My point is nothing hits that specific sensation that rare steak and raw tuna hits. Avocado is maybe the closest managing to hit the fatty sensation similar to the tuna but still has a stodge sensation too while the tuna doesn't and can't possibly replicate the mix of freshness and Maillard reaction of steak.

There's a good reason steak is such a common food for vegetarians to give in and eat.

[fragile_frogs]

"I think what most people associate with meat is actually the flavors that go into the meat-centric dish most cuisine is based on."

Don't forget to add some MSG to get a savory umami flavour.

[scrollaway]

Some people enjoy horse riding.

[chrischen]

And some people are cannibals.

[scrollaway]

Cool, but horse riding is legal, regulated as a sport, whereas cannibalism is, you know, illegal.

Like someone else said downthread, guilt-tripping people into veganism doesn't work. All it achieves is making you look like an ass.

Also, if you use Google Chrome, you're literally a murderer.

[chrischen]

I'm not a vegan, so I'd be a pretty terrible liar if I was trying to guilt trip others into being something I'm not.

My point was that if you think in terms of meat, or horses, you'll only be able to come up with solutions to your problems in those terms.

If you go one level up and realize that your problem has nothing to do with horses or animals, and deals with transportation then you'll realize you can solve that problem and never have to deal with horses again.

People enjoying horse riding is in fact a completely unrelated problem (entertainment, enjoyment, or whatever you want to call it), as I was making the point by mentioning cannibalism (you're doing it because you enjoy it, not because human flesh is necessary for your sustenance).

If you open your mind to the fact that it may be that what you enjoy about your food isn't the meat but the flavors and effort the chef puts into the dish that just happens to contain meat, you'll see that you're probably associating that deliciousness with the meat when in fact it's just because the deliciousness was imbued onto the meat dish. We started using meat because of its convenience, not because it has some magical properties that make food palatable where other things cannot substitute.

I personally am not vegan because animal welfare is not high enough in my priorities to overcome the hassles of adjusting around the current bias towards meat in most cuisine. But if most cuisine started orienting around non-meat dishes (and a lot of cultures already do this, especially from countries that historically couldn't afford meat), I know I would not complain.

It's uniquely American (maybe European too?) to eat a giant slab of relatively cheap lean steak with just salt and pepper... most other cuisines mix meat with veggies, or in the case of Japan go for slightly higher quality (non-factory farmed) but lower volume meat consumption. Veggies in American cuisine are an afterthought (something you have to eat to "balance" your meal) whereas if you take Chinese dishes (while many feature meat), they can often center around veggies and make them the primary focus.