[young_unixer]

That's what Amazon does.

You buy things from their website and pay using their payment platform. The website doesn't make it obvious that you're actually buying from a third party ("sold by: X" is in small letters and gets lost between all the other details). And Amazon lump items from different vendors together in the same product page.

I literally bought like 3 items on Amazon before realizing that not all items were sold by Amazon themselves.

When it turns out that items are counterfeit, they try to offload a great part of their responsibility onto the legal system, because they see themselves as the victims of counterfeit, not as facilitators [1]. Luckily, some judges are not buying their excuse [2].

(Even if buy items "sold by Amazon", you can get a counterfeit product [3].)

[1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/amazon-establi...

[2] https://californiaglobe.com/section-2/amazon-liable-for-defe...

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24174276

[3] https://twitter.com/nostarch/status/1183095004258099202

[gnicholas]

I find Amazon’s system very confusing. I recently bought a Magic Keyboard for my iPad Pro ($100 off!) [1] on Amazon. The purchase page didn’t show a return policy, and at the top it said “visit the Apple Store”. This made it seem like the device was being sold by Apple.

But of course there’s no way Apple would take a return in store if I purchased via Amazon.

So I chatted an Amazon rep to see what the return policy would be for that item. She looked at the link and said “because this item is sold and shipped by Amazon, there’s a 30 day return period, and return shipping is covered.” I had the rep email me a chat transcript just in case her interpretation turned out to be wrong.

This system makes no sense to me. What does it mean when you see the “visit the Apple Store”? I thought this indicated that this was the seller?

I should note that I wouldn’t buy most Apple peripherals through Amazon, but I’m pretty sure no one is making knockoff Magic Keyboards just yet...

1: https://www.amazon.com/Magic-Keyboard-11-inch-iPad-Generatio...

[amscanne]

Brands often have a “store” on Amazon, which is a dedicated landing page. You’re likely the victim of confusion between that and “The Apple Store (tm)”.

[gnicholas]

Oh I’m aware this isn’t the Apple Store (as in the physical buildings). I just don’t understand what the brand store is if this item is considered to be sold by Amazon (as the rep said). Is it just a collection of items sold by Amazon and others that are manufactured by one company? I assumed that the company was involved in the selling.

For example, I would be more likely to trust an item is legit if it supposedly comes from “the Apple Store” on Amazon, as opposed to some random Amazon seller. But if it’s just a collection of items from various different sellers, then it’s pretty much meaningless to me.

EDIT: can someone explain the downvotes here? I'm just replying to the comment above, describing what confuses me about this. If this is super obvious to other people, then what does "visit the Apple Store" on Amazon mean?

[judge2020]

Ships from Amazon.com

Sold by Amazon.com

These two indicate who holds the stock and who delivers the product. All prime-eligible items are shipped by Amazon.com (although some other shipping methods provide 'prime free shipping', without a 2-day guarantee), while Amazon also will wholesale buy and sell items themselves if they're high-volume enough, which is indicated by 'Sold by Amazon.com'.

The whole 'Visit the <Brand> Store' is a way to go to a page that only shows products sold under that brand/company. For example, this Corsair ql120[0] has "Visit the Corsair store" under the product name which shows all Corsair products. Amazon generally limits the amount of off-Amazon linking done, although it's not strict and it's not off-limits in product images or the description.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z9SQX7M

[gnicholas]

Thanks — I can see that it says who sells/ships the item just above the protection plan up-sell area, which I typically don't look at. It's useful for me to know that the "visit X Store" link at the top doesn't necessarily mean that Company X is actually involved in inventory selection/shipment, which is what I would have assumed based on having seen pages like the olight page, which seem to have been designed by olight. [1]

1: https://www.amazon.com/stores/OLIGHT/OLIGHT/page/098E844F-88...

[qazxcvbnmlp]

“Visit the Apple store” is a link. You can click on it and see.

[sellyme]

I suspect that Amazon's argument is that they're more akin to eBay than they are to a supermarket. "We're not selling the product, we're only selling the floorspace" kind of thing.

That's a lie, but it is certainly a blurrier line than the one for traditional retailers. I don't think it's a coincidence that Amazon has been very slow to enter markets with strong consumer law like Australia.

[leetcrew]

amazon's return policy is pretty good though AFAIK? 30 days no questions asked and they pay the return shipping. pretty sure the transaction gets reversed immediately, or at least as soon as the first scan on the return shipment. not a lot of retailers beat that.

[sellyme]

Sure, their return policy is good if you bought an item and later decided it doesn't suit your needs - that's an issue that's often entirely your own fault, and they're happy to refund you in the hopes of keeping a customer. That's usually going to be a win-win.

But if you've been sold an item under false pretenses, their return policy isn't a "policy", it's a legal requirement. I'm not charitable enough to use the terms "pretty good" to describe any process where step 1 is defrauding the customer.

Amazon sell counterfeit items but want to avoid the legal responsibility of doing so.

[ransom_rs]

I feel like this is different because Amazon does tell you what happens, and they can technically argue that you are responsible for understanding what you are buying (the ethics of hiding this information is very questionable). On the other hand, the EULA is specific language that is legally bounded.

[IgorPartola]

It’s even more confusing than that. If you buy an item “sold by..” but fulfilled by Amazon, you deal with Amazon for returns, right? But if it’s shipped by the vendor then yeah you are right.

[centimeter]

I've never gotten a counterfeit sold by amazon, but I have gotten used items sold as "new" by Amazon (not by a third-party seller). In one instance, the item was not only used, but a piece of safety-critical equipment in an extremely dangerous condition that could easily have resulted in dismemberment or death if used.