[Geminidog]

>I find these anecdotes to be completely untrue.

You can't find my anecdotal experiences to be untrue because you haven't experienced my anecdotal experience. This is physically impossible.

What you can claim is that my anecdotal experiences do not apply to women in engineering corporations in general. However, this is not a claim that I made as I caveated my point with the fact that what I'm saying is based off of my own anecdotal evidence.

> I don't have an equivalent story for women because I work with significantly less women.

Evidence is the only way to make sense of the reality we live in and there are two basic types: Anecdotal and Statistical. You claim here that you have no anecdotal evidence. That means statistical evidence is your only option (a stronger option btw) so where is it?

>Let's try focusing on the apparent and obvious biases against women before we start keeping score on how men are so disenfranchised.

Why should I focus on your claim that has no evidence? If men are indeed disenfranchised shouldn't that deserve focus? Are womens' rights superior to mens rights? Are you implying men can't be treated unfairly?

Why can't we focus on the rights of both genders?

[carlisle_]

>Why can't we focus on the rights of both genders?

Ask yourself that question. In response to somebody writing about their experience changing careers you brought up how men aren't treated fairly.

[Geminidog]

I did. I responded because imo under normal circumstances nobody would be offered this kind of deal. It doesn't make economical sense for the company.

She was given leeway and my guess is because she's a woman among other things. Women do have advantages that men don't.

Women also have disadvantages but that is not my point. I am simply pointing out one area where women have an advantage in a male dominated field. It's a real advantage.

[carlisle_]

Oh no, women have one advantage over men (if it were true) in a male dominated field.

How do you not see how contradictory that statement is?

[kazinator]

It isn't. Sometimes women are given an advantage, in a way that is completely unfair and only gives a small boost to certain women with certain personality, attractiveness and age characteristics. Men with certain outward characteristics get a least as much of a boost.

[Geminidog]

So your saying women have zero advantages over men? That absolutely none exist or has ever existed?

Out of all possible advantages (let's say 1000 in total) your saying men hold 100% of all these advantages and women can't even hold one advantage?

What in your mind is more realistic?

[carlisle_]

I'm saying what's the point of even keeping score when the odds are so stacked against women. Your complaints are entirely anecdotal, meanwhile it's very easy to point at empirical data showing how women are treated poorly.

If you wanna line up your complaints alongside mountains of empirical evidence showing how women are disenfranchised repeatedly feel free, just don't expect people to take you seriously when you call yourself a feminist.

If you actually want to call yourself a legitimate feminist you should spend more time listening and learning. It might make you actually feel silly to complain about how men are treated in tech.

[Geminidog]

>Your complaints are entirely anecdotal, meanwhile it's very easy to point at empirical data showing how women are treated poorly.

Show me the data for this specific case of horizontal movement in engineering organizations for women and you have an argument that can change my view.

>If you actually want to call yourself a legitimate feminist you should spend more time listening and learning. It might make you actually feel silly to complain about how men are treated in tech.

I am listening and learning. Show me your data. <-- that is literally a call for you to prove your points so that I can "listen and learn"

>I'm saying what's the point of even keeping score when the odds are so stacked against women.

Who's keeping score? I'm just bringing up one specific case of unfair treatment. I never tried to turn this into a battle of "which sex is treated more unfairly"