[MattGaiser]

I must wonder whether the misinformation is the excuse and not the reason, as there are plenty of places in America where school funding is a major state issue and that doesn't change a thing.

Oklahoma has a shortage of teachers and election after election, the population collectively shrugs.

I haven't ever heard someone openly oppose education. Privately, I have heard plenty of people say "kids can make do" and "I don't want to pay for other people's kids."

[jacob2484]

- I oppose growing education bureaucracy where little of the increase in education funding goes to teacher salary, and instead to rent-seeking bureaucrats that waste tax-payer money - Public schools have failed kids in the US due to overly powerful teachers unions who protect terrible teacher and do injustice to students prospects. I'd rather pay for charter schools, not some general state education budget.

[p1necone]

You're simultaneously claiming that not enough money goes to teachers salaries and that the teachers unions are too powerful. I'm not really sure I follow.

[3np]

It’s not weird to me. GP is arguing that the teachers unions don’t yield (sufficient) positive outcome and using their powers the wrong way, being part of the inefficient potentially corrupt bureaucracy.

Whether that’s the case over there, I have no idea. But it’s not inconsistent.

In my hometown I don’t recall a single person beating against the teacher’s union. Sure on particular issues there would be occasional tension, especially with negotiations with private schools, but no one argued for their abolition.

[cccc4all]

Not enough money goes to good teachers and too much money goes to bad teachers.

Teachers unions enable bad teachers by excusing their behavior. Doesn't do much to help good teachers.

What does teachers unions do to help good teachers become better teachers and helping students?

Teachers unions help bad teachers by preventing vast majority from being fired for being bad teachers. Everyone knows who the bad teachers are in the system.

Teachers unions make money by controlling the teachers and politicians in the system.

[smogcutter]

Worth pointing out that regardless of its merits either way, this argument is in total bad faith unless you’d say the same thing about police unions. Bonus points for bringing it up at any passing mention of public employees, the way the teachers union rant comes up. Somehow that rarely seems to be the case.

Not going to pursue this any further bc nothing pointlessly derails a thread like arguing about public education (see also: nextdoor), and nothing is more boring than arguing over how much money someone else “deserves”.