[ddevault]

>But it doesn't work for me (aka. important features are buggy in the gnome/wayland/whatever stack I am using if I select wayland in gdm).

GNOME doesn't work for you. GNOME uses Wayland, but the bugs you experienced are not the fault of Wayland. They're the fault of GNOME.

GNOME is a dumpster fire and its premature roll-out to Fedora, Ubuntu, etc was very badly done. None of that has any bearing on Wayland, except to fuel the flames for spiteful people who choose to use the botched GNOME roll-out to harass anyone who has anything to do with Wayland.

[btinker]

> GNOME doesn't work for you. GNOME uses Wayland, but the bugs you experienced are not the fault of Wayland. They're the fault of GNOME.

Yes, but I, and I believe most people talking about Wayland mean "user experience on current Wayland implementations", of course.

> None of that has any bearing on Wayland

No, Wayland is not a project that can stand for itself. It drives, needs and causes further work and implementation in compositors, Window libraries, applications, distributions, etc.

Wayland on it's own is a academic coriosity. Wayland that "works" for anyone is a interplay between diverse forms of software implemting or relying on parts of it. Getting Wayland to work is were the problems are, not in the protocol (at least I assume so, I don't have any real insight into it).

And that "Wayland stack" is not (completely) working for me.

Then again I don't post on the Wayland bug tracker, but on the gnome one and I don't want to make excuses for

> spiteful people who choose to use the botched GNOME roll-out to harass anyone who has anything to do with Wayland

Harrasment has no place in in this discussion, no matter what one thinks of Wayland.

... But op was not really about that (at least I didn't understand it like that). It was about "wayland not working" being lies and people not getting it being either malicious or so fooled they are living in a fantasy.

[whatisthisfield]

Maybe GNOME doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago.

GNOME works for almost everyone. Most of the lies you’ve heard about ways that it’s broken are just that: lies. And if you insist on living in that fantasy, then keep it to yourself.

[ddevault]

Problems with GNOME are not a fantasy.

Fantasy: Wayland does not support screen capture.

This criticism is not legitimate. In actual truth, many Wayland compositors do support screen capture.

Not fantasy: GNOME on Wayland does not support server-side decorations.

This is a legitimate criticism of GNOME.

[whatisthisfield]

> Not fantasy: GNOME on Wayland does not support server-side decorations.

So GNOME doesn't support your precious use-case, but it works perfectly fine for most users without server-side decorations.

This doesn't make GNOME a "dumpster fire" to anyone except the "Wayland sucks!" crowd. Or more of a dumpster fire than, say, Sway: I'm positive one can find a feature that Sway doesn't support.

[ddevault]

GNOME is a dumpster fire is a personal judgement based on a lot of different factors.

But yes, if GNOME or Sway is missing a feature then you want, then that's on them. It would speak ill of GNOME or Sway. But it usually does not speak ill of Wayland, which is the fallacy many, many, many people make, and then fill my inbox up with hateful shit over stuff that Sway actually supports!