[missedthecue]

How does capitalism cause environmental damage any more than alternate systems, say communism, anarchism, or feudalism? Neither of those systems have avoided environmental damage where they've been implemented. The common denominator is humans.

[jjj123]

There are a few reasons I think this. Endless growth and short term profit are two hallmarks of capitalism. They also lead to exploiting natural resources past the point of no return.

I think there’s definitely potential for harmful growth + short term thinking in socialist countries as well, especially when you factor in international competition.

But I think it could only be better than what we’re doing now.

Imo the biggest differentiator between a more capitalist society and a more democratic socialist society is who has power. In the US, it’s people and corporations with lots of money. And guess what! People and corporations with lots of money are incentivized to accelerate climate disaster if it means boosting their short term wealth.

In (ideal — I know it’s not going to work out 100% this way) democratic socialism, everyone has equal power. This will necessarily lead to a less exploitative relationship to our planet.

You can see an example of capitalist vs demsoc power dynamics in the green new deal. A majority of registered voters across parties support the GND [1]. So in a demsoc society with the same level of support, the GND would be made into law. But there’s a slim chance it’ll come to fruition in the US. Why? Because the people in power have a vested interest in not losing money, and any worthwhile GND is going to cost the rich a _lot_ of money.

[1] https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-ma...

[missedthecue]

But endless growth isn't the goal. Endless improvements in efficiency are, and those improvements are infinitely available in practical terms.

For instance, we have less of that precious Iowan topsoil than we did 100 years ago, but our yields are higher than ever. No endless growth required, but it has made us all better off.

[jjj123]

Well endless growth is the goal in capitalism at the level of a publicly traded corporation, but I get what you’re saying that it can actually lead to beneficial impacts if that’s more efficient.

However, I think short term monetary efficiency and long term sustainability are not always going to align.

Is it possible there’s an alternative where we aren’t beholden to the whims of a heavily manipulated market to solve our problems? Where we can address an issue head on instead of waiting until the fix is more efficient than the problem?