[itsoktocry]

>Have a room that is a dedicated office. When I leave this room, I leave the "office".

If this is important (and I agree it is) then we're setting up the vast majority of people for burnout. Most people don't have the luxury of a room they can convert into an office.

[Pet_Ant]

> Most people don't have the luxury of a room they can convert into an office.

For those who don't understand, here's my annecdote:

After the divorce the only thing I could afford in my son's school district is a 2 bedroom^ apartment. I have to pack up "my office" just to serve dinner. We now have lunch from the couch. I'm not complaining, but the idea of a dedicated room is up there with personal island for me.

^ the master is his to give him playspace lacking a playroom

[icu]

I understand too having been divorced and had to downsize to be close to my son for shared custody. What helped is doing away with a bed and opting for a Japanese futon setup where I fold up my bed and have loads more space to work.

[alisonkisk]

A workspace can be temporal not geographic. Use your "non-commute time" to change over the curtains/linens/folding-furniture (and clothes!) to change the context from home to work. Like Mr Rogers changing his shoes and sweater.

[sli]

The fourth bullet point is also a non-starter. I'm sorry, but it's not, nor was it ever, good advice for programmers to write code both at work and at home. We don't expect this of other careers, we shouldn't expect it of developers, either.

Feel free to write code after work if you like, but to consider it anywhere close to a requirement, even to just help with burnout, is perpetuating a rather toxic view of this particular industry's workers.

[schwartzworld]

A lot of us get into programming because we enjoy it, but the realities of work often mean doing boring repetitive tasks. OP isn't suggesting that it's mandatory, just a way to keep from feeling burnt out, and I agree.

Additionally, if you're smart that time can wind up being compensated later. I wrote JavaScript on my own for 3.5 years before I started doing it professionally, and while I didn't get paid, it allowed me to eventually double my income, so I consider it a great investment.

> We don't expect this of other careers,

Sure we do. Doctors may be expected to read medical journals or keep up on the latest research, for example.

[arvinsim]

> Additionally, if you're smart that time can wind up being compensated later. I wrote JavaScript on my own for 3.5 years before I started doing it professionally, and while I didn't get paid, it allowed me to eventually double my income, so I consider it a great investment.

Great if you are young and have no commitments. Not so great if you are old and have many commitments.

Or are we expecting programmers to program after work even during their later years?

[schwartzworld]

> Or are we expecting programmers to program after work even during their later years?

Look, OP suggested a strategy for not getting burnt out that works for them, and I'm just saying what works for me. You are the one who is turning this into some sort of "expectation".

If you don't want to code outside of work, and don't see value in it, don't do it. Nobody gives a rats ass.

[jghn]

Indeed doctors do, at least in the US although I don’t know how it works internationally. They’re called CMEs (continuing medical education) and they need to earn a certain number of hours per year

[schwartzworld]

CMEs are one thing, but many good doctors keep up to date on medical advances in their field regardless.

[thirteenfingers]

Who said it had to be writing code? If finding joy in work is unrealistic, then take up a musical instrument, build a model railroad, write short stories, or something totally unrelated. (I've been a full-time code monkey by day and musician by night for going on six years, and I'm still finding other hobbies to dabble in.)

[bobthepanda]

"Work on" might be bad verbiage then, particularly if we are talking about people who the term "work" might just make anxious.

"Find a hobby" would be a better phrasing.

[cloverich]

Two counter points. First, it depends on the personality. If you don't find programming on its own gratifying and enjoyable, there's no need to force it on the side. But second, if you do enjoy programming, are burnt out, and have never tried a side project, give it an honest shot. It is so utterly counter-intuitive that programming on the side can cure your burn out from programming as a job, but time and again that has been my experience. I don't quite understand how it has this effect on me (and others), but it does. A few hours or a weekend of coding on a side project, and I come back to work like I've just been on vacation, sometimes even struggling to remember just what it was that was bothering me so much last week.

[progforlyfe]

I took item 4 to mean "at work" -- find something enjoyable to work on at work / while actually working... Which definitely isn't always an option depending on your job.

[zarq]

I agree to what you're saying, but the 4th bullet should not mean this. Find joy in what you're doing is independent advice. I would add to this that outside of work, you should also look for something that gives you joy. Something that is not coding would be preferred.

[alisonkisk]

It's not really your place to tell people what hobbies are OK to enjoy.

[gameman144]

That one seems like pretty common advice even for non-software fields. The work you love doesn't have to be software, too, but you should be working on something you enjoy (or if you get fulfillment from your job, that's just a bonus!)

[chrshawkes]

Your risk is being left behind. It's unfortunate but true.

[marcosdumay]

Programing at work and programing as a hobby are very different activities.

One should never consider it a requirement, but it's not a recipe for certain burn-out either. (But yeah, if you are doing it because it's a requirement, then it's work and it will lead to burn-out.)

[austincheney]

> We don't expect this of other careers

That is so not true. When are doctors supposed to perform research or their required continuing education? When seeing clients? No. It’s on their own time.

[johnkpaul]

Continual Medical Education (CMEs) are definitely during normal work days. They're also often at fancy destinations with hotels and mai tais. My father and other family have done them for years. They never had to take vacation days.

[jokethrowaway]

Doctors have a terrible working schedule and I'm not jealous of it one bit, but this is really not true.

They may be on-call sometimes but generally if they're off they are not working or training.

They read UpToDate on work time.

[scrose]

Just want to chime in and say your dedicated space doesn’t need to be a room!

I’ve gone the entire pandemic in a 450sq ft studio with my wife and our pets. My trick was to put my desk between a window and a wall and get an $80 room divider. Anytime the room divider was closed it meant one of two things: “Please don’t distract me, I’m busy”. Or “I’m not sitting back at my desk to work until tomorrow”

I love working — prior to my wife moving in, all I wanted to do was code and tinker with different ideas. But I know that isn’t sustainable for many reasons. Having a blocked off space, as tiny as it may be, to “get in the zone” or literally separate me from work has worked wonders for my mental health during the pandemic.

* I used some past tense here because we finally just upgraded to a 1 bedroom after 2 years :)

[ewmiller]

Can confirm. I live in a 450 square foot studio apartment and I work from home every day. I would love a separate room to just be my "office," but my only room is already my kitchen, bedroom and living room too...

[danpalmer]

I don't have a feeling for how big that is, but I work from home in a small flat. I have found that I can get this separation from only using my desk for work. I don't sit in my office chair or at my desk in my own time, if I'm writing code in my free time I do it on my sofa or at my coffee table.

Alternatives I've heard from others are things like dressing up for work. I had a colleague that wore a suit to work every day (at a tech startup) so that when he got home he could change into something else. That helped him define a boundary.

Find what works for you, it doesn't have to be physical space.

[ewmiller]

> dressing up for work

That's actually a great point - the days that I put on a button-up and nice jeans as if I was going into an office are days that I'm way more productive, as opposed to wearing pajamas all day.

[flurdy]

Well my dress up is limited to putting on a different t-shirt. (What's further down is irrelevant for zoom meetings) But it does help. I have a set of slightly more respectable work t-shirts and a very different set of home shirts. And it does change my mind set. And it is very nice to take it off at the end of the day.

Also my kids whom are stuck at home at the moment recognise the difference and "somewhat" tries to disturb me less if I got a work shirt on.

[mrburton]

I agree - dressing up was implied with "get washed/dressed". It's very important to get dressed for work.

[_whiteCaps_]

I find that going for a walk before / after work is helpful to get in the right mindset. Hopefully that's an option available to you.

Make sure you've got everything ready to go when you 'arrive'. Don't do chores during the day -- but if you have a partner, discuss your reasoning for this with them beforehand.

[tubularhells]

You can set up movable paper walls Japanese style and separate spaces that way.

[bmn__]

The word is http://enwp.org/paravent

[mrburton]

I 100% agree. I moved from Mountain View CA to Jersey City, NJ. When I moved, I intentionally made sure I found a place with an extra bedroom. That being said, trust me, I know not everyone can afford it.

I grew up sleeping on the floor for 15 years because I couldn't afford a bed. I get it.

[sologoub]

If you are in a studio it’s going to be harder, but if you literally have a room, there are ways to make it work - I’ve been working literally inches from my bed by putting a standing desk converter on a low 3-drawer dresser. The key is that when I’m working - the standing desk and chair are there and the bed is made/not used. When it’s time to stop work, I fold everything away so it’s not in the way, move the chair out and spend some time outside of that room. I return there when it’s time to sleep and don’t touch any work related items. It’s an odd mental switch, but been working well for me. The context of the room is reset. Having grown up in small Soviet-era apartments helps I guess.

[oaiey]

I think, especially in context of burnout, is the mental switch. If necessary, cleanup your whole equipment and shove it below the bed or to the pots. Do some sports in between and do not code for fun but watch some Netflix. On a TV and not your VSCode plugin :)

[cloverich]

In lieu of a separate actual space, a separate conceptual space can help too. Recently I started making an active effort to shut work down. Write down closing thoughts for the day, close all tabs and open processes, shut it all down. Block off time in my calendar, and even if I have to stay online for something important, I still go through the "shtudown" routine with everything that isn't the urgent situation. That whay when the urgency resolves, I am ready to just drop it and walk away. Its not since I approached this more mindfully that I realized just how much I was letting it weigh on me.

[nullsmack]

On Windows 10 you can have separate virtual desktops. You can use win+tab to add and switch to one and then bring all of your work windows over to it. I used to use that when I began WFH but got out of the practice. You can switch between them by doing ctrl+win+left arrow or ctrl+win+right but be careful because some graphics drivers use ctrl+alt+left/right/up/down to rotate the screen and I've messed up my multi-desktop setup more than once by mistaking the key combo.

It's not as good as having a separate system for office work but you can conceptually separate what you are doing at least.

[distances]

I have a separate work laptop from my employer, but if I didn't, I would just create another user account on my computer.

I try to keep work/personal data completely separated. No logging in to private email from work account, no hobby code and work code accessible for same user account. No Hacker News or other unrelated sites on work browser. Private matters during work hours done on my private phone.

I find this good for work/free time separation, and helps a lot with concentration too.

[sriku]

One purpose is to enable you to concentrate on work, but I am don't think that's the biggest win. The core idea here is to use physical space mapped to mental space so you can move between activities easily. It can be a specific corner of a room too. Like - "when I sit here I'm ideating, when I go there I'm designing, when I sit at that desk I'm coding" sort of split. You don't need to be fine grained, but it is similar to "when I sit at the dining table, I eat". Quite possible to design this even in small spaces.

[shortandsweet]

Why are you pissing on this person's fire that's keeping them alive?

[thegreatpeter]

I agree. A 1 bedroom WFH in the city of Chicago fkin' sucks

[Izkata]

The goal is to have a physical mapping that allows context switching. A whole separate room is the obvious ideal, but as I don't have that either, I came up with something different that works well enough: I have two couches (sort of, two parts of an Ikea couch), so I rearranged them a bit and one of them is now strictly for work, the other for non-work.

[bitxbitxbitcoin]

Anything can help provide that same context switching to a lesser extent. Examples can be wearing your hair a certain way during working hours, or wearing one set of headphones for work and another for play, etc.

[tzs]

Buy a bootable external drive for your computer. Have all your "work" stuff on that drive. When you reach then end of your work day, shut down the computer, disconnect the external drive and store it in a closet until the start of your next work day.

When booted off the work drive, do not mount your internal drive.