[timsally]

Quitting smoking may seem obvious, but it's important to consider the context. Middle class people grow up in homes that are very anti-smoking. In the rare case that a middle class family isn't anti-smoking, middle class schools certainly are. Hell, I was indoctrinated with anti-smoking feelings starting from age 10 in school. Whereas a lot of poor people are probably being given cigarettes at age 10. Combine this with the highly addictive properties of cigarettes and I'm not convinced quitting smoking is a reasonable money management strategy to suggest unless we provide some sort of support program or infrastructure. If there are free programs available to teach how to fight addiction, then sure I'm on board.

[btilly]

I wasn't claiming that quitting smoking is a reasonable money management strategy. But a pack a day is something like $1500/year straight to your bottom line. No matter what your feelings about tobacco, it is an obvious luxury that you can live without and save a lot of money.

This relates to a very important distinction between being working poor and impoverished. And it isn't money. It is whether you've given up.

Someone who is working poor may objectively have it hard, but they feel in control of their lives. They can and do plan for the future. They save up for things. They anticipate what can be anticipated and make plans. I've seen people like this calculate the cost of smoking, and choose not to because they can't afford it.

Someone who is impoverished believes that their life is hopeless. Bad things are going to happen to them. They might have some influence over which bad things, but it is going to be bad. So why bother? Live for the moment and tomorrow can go hang. Smoke another cigarette, hope for some cheap booze (or other substance) tonight, it is all hopeless anyway.

Someone in the latter frame of mind knows that payday loans are stupid, but doesn't care. Because it is bad in that nebulous future that they already know is going to suck, and how much worse is it really going to get?

Anyone who talks about the poor being good with money who does not understand this critical difference between being working poor and impoverished is missing a very important point.

[timsally]

I agree with your distinction and it is an important one. It is also important to define the function by which one becomes either a part of the working poor or impoverished. I argue it is a function of personal motivation, race, sexuality, religion, and a myriad of other factors. Indeed, pointing this out was the point of my previous exposition regarding smoking. I'm wary of those people that place too much weight on the personal motivation term in the above equation.