[Duff]

Responsibility is not a class issue.

The lady who cleans our office is poor by any definition. She works 14 hours a day, every day. She has two kids, no TV, and has cash saved up to buy Christmas presents and school uniforms.

The guy in the next office makes $110k/year leases a BMW 5 series, owns a new condo, and goes out of the country on vacation 3 times a year.

Who's irresponsible?

[jrockway]

Neither?

When you get paid a lot of money, it's easier to be less careful with your money and not have anything bad happen. It's easy to contribute the maximum to your 401k, have the best health insurance and flexible spending account, save $1000 a month, and still buy a lot of things. If you lose your job, you'll probably get another one. And banks are more than happy to loan you money to bridge the transition.

All I'm saying is that consumption is not bad for any intrinsic reason other than the taboo of consumption.

(Let's look at your examples: owning a new condo, and going out of the country on vacation 3 times a year. New condos cost the same as old condos. You're paying for the ground under them. You're going to pay for that, in some form regardless of whether you rent or buy, so this isn't much of a "consumption" issue. Going on vacation isn't amazingly expensive. A cheap round-trip flight out of the US is $500. If you have friends, that's the total expense right there. So again, not an amazing display of financial ineptitude.)

[kamaal]

I think the guy earning high is to blame here. Nobody else is responsible for one's financial mess(Recession, Inflation, government etc) if one doesn't know how to manage their money well.

All measurements in the world are relative. One person lives frugual, saves and invests money. Another person doesn't.The spend thrift guy will have himself to blame. You can't have good earning conditions all your life, good and bad times come alternatively in every person's life.There will always be recessions, wars and inflation. There will always be health problems, there will always more competition.

The responsibility to secure your future when you have the chance is yours.Savings and good investment decisions make people incrementally richer. A person may not become a millionaire next year with this strategy, but over time savings and good investment decisions can make you really rich over time(When you need it the most).

[anonymous246]

Umm, I think you misunderstood his point. I guess he was trying to make the point that a 110k salary will barely (if at all) cover the sorts of expenses he described.

Which is actually true, unless you go through contortions like interpreting "foreign vacation" to mean shacking with friends in a different country. Btw, AFAIK, new condos do cost more than older ones.

[hugh3]

Which is actually true, unless you go through contortions like interpreting "foreign vacation" to mean shacking with friends in a different country.

Meh, international vacations aren't necessarily all that expensive. $1000 for an airfare, another $1000 for a week's accommodation... that's six grand a year. Heck, let's make it ten grand, just so you don't have to skimp. And a lease on a new 5-series is, what, $600 a month? This is all perfectly affordable on a $110K salary.

I'd never advise anyone to lease a car rather than buying one with cash, but actually I reckon three international holidays a year is a great way to spend money. You only live once, and while you're probably doomed to spend your entire life within a six-mile deep approximately-spherical shell, it's full of interesting stuff so you might as well go and see as much as you can.