[soared]

I spent some time learning the creative thinking process from an IDEO employee/teacher while in school. One of the early steps is defining your problem by interviewing consumers, which seems like where the misstep occurred. Being an avid cyclist with nearly no friends who bike, I've seen that they are not intimidated by "technology".

They are afraid of looking like an idiot. If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear, while they are riding a walmart bike in baggy shorts with a dumb helmet, while visible to hundreds of people in cars.

IMO the solution is not a new bike - its better group rides. Most people don't show up to the gym and start working out on their own, they take a class at a gym with gear and other noobs. I believe the best way to get people off the couch and biking is letting them go to a gym, with a bunch of noobs, and ride bikes together. Don't spend $400+, spend $75/mo. (A bike is maybe ~70% of the total cost of bike gear).

I have a ton of cool resources from IDEO (now quite a few years old) and the creative thinking/ideation process, I can post them here if desired.

For those misunderstanding my example: The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. Regardless of the situation (biking, at work, or talking to women at bars) not knowing what you're doing and having that be publicly visible can be a huge hurdle to overcome.

[brnt]

Dutch person here. The thing you foreigners don't get is that cycling shouldn't be regarded as a sport. All your problems with cycling stem from that misconception.

[analog31]

I live in a mid sized town in the US Midwest. My house is on a street that has been a popular thoroughfare for cyclists, for many years. The simple reason is that it connects A and B while avoiding busy roads. My breakfast table (and now my standing desk for working from home) look out over the street and I can watch the bikes go by all day. And I love bikes, so I notice every bike and its rider.

Judging from gear, attire, speed, etc., my impression is that the vast majority of riders are what you would call "casual" and not "sport" riders. Sometimes a sportive rider goes by, but it's not the majority.

I know a lot of cyclists, including myself. Most cyclists recognize the difference between casual / utilitarian and sportive cycling. Many do both.

I believe that the stupid American who doesn't grasp cycling is a myth of the past, if it was ever anything but mythical. The most popular bikes sold in the US today have no relation to any category of competitive cycling: Hybrids, cruisers, and low end mountain bikes purchased for riding on pavement.

We're adapting to different circumstances. Now, with that said, a peculiarity of Americans is that we don't obey traditionalist rules about the separation of work and pleasure. Thus, a person might choose a "fun" bike for riding to work. I've been guilty of such a transgression. But I also own and use a bike that would not seem particularly out of place in Amsterdam.

[soared]

In my opinion, Casual biking cannot exist when you have to tolerate being 12 inches from a 2 ton death machine going 45 MPH.

[brnt]

I agree, I have lived abroad in such circumstances for a number of years. Local cyclists were hard to convince that they were not very good at advocating the bicycle as a mode of daily transport.

Getting cars under control is certainly the first thing that must happen, but cyclists running red lights and being worried about their 'gear' are a nuisance everywhere. They are no more tolerated in the Netherlands than outside.

[maccard]

As a cyclist and driver in a city, cyclists running red lights is one of those things that people talk about like it's a massive problem. It's not cyclists blowing red lights at busy junctions, if they did that they would be killed here instantly. It's cyclists trying to go when there isn't any traffic going, or they're competing with pedestrians. Yeah you get the occasional asshat, but you get them in cars too, and they're way more dangerous there.

The focus needs to be on getting cars under control, period.

[riversflow]

>it’s cyclists trying to go when there isn’t any traffic going.

Bingo, the safest time to cross on a bike is when there aren’t any moving vehicles in the intersection, and your senses tell you there aren’t going to be any more, regardless of the color of the light. Apparently I’m that asshat and will continue to be as long as I’m sharing the roads with large steel blocks. I also advocate for anyone else cycling in the US to be an asshat too, because I don’t want them to die.

I drive too, but I seriously don’t get why people care about bicyclists running a red, what’s going to happen? You have a much better ability to hear and see on a bike. You can’t accelerate anything like a car. It’s safer for everybody for them get away from the cars at the light.

The last thing I want to do is accelerate alongside a bunch of high powered steel blocks with flesh bags at the controls.

[brnt]

I have steen many (near) accidents with cyclists who wanted tot conserve momentum, which really only sporty types do.

Like I said, all problems stem from that misconception. You're right that crossing 5 secs before the light turns green is one of the safest moments, but as I will happily demonstrate if you'd make it to the Netherlands, intersections need not be traffic arenas. Those solutions are halfbaked and still within an ill conceived approach to traffic.

Reducing speeds is essential, increasing predictability too, and naturally cyclists are no exception.

[anfilt]

Sigh in my state of Idaho cyclists are allowed to go through red lights. They function as stop signs for cyclists. Also stop signs are yield signs for cyclists. This was done to get cyclists out intersections faster. You cant accelerate as fast a car. Also most collisions with cyclists happen with cars at intersections. So this was done to reduce the time cyclists interact with cars. As well as reduce technical violations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

[donjoe]

That's interesting. Reducing overall traffic speed would render most traffic lights obsolete. Traffic lights are only necessary in order to allow heavy machinery going >30mph in dense areas.

I think we will have to ask ourselves the question in the future: do we want heavy machinery at high speed in populated areas including red lights for all other means of transportation - or do we want populated areas with no/almost no traffic lights and faster traffic for foot/cycling traffic?

[brudgers]

Beside sport and casual cycling there is practical cycling. Functional use of bicycles as transport from A to B and back where B might be work or a shop.

Though admittedly, the weather in most of the US is unsuitable much of the time and likewise the terrain. The Netherlands is a small locale where these are not factors.

[fian]

Australian person here. When the summer temps are routinely over 30C and winters have many rainy days, cycling in casual clothes doesn't work except for only very short distances.

Most commuters in my city that ride more than 5km to work have adopted at least some lycra as part of their kit. It handles sweat better in summer and can be rinsed of sand then spun and air dried in winter, so you aren't getting into cold wet gear for your ride home.

My city commonly has a sea breeze with a wind speed over 35 km/hr in summer. A lot of committed cycle commuters end up adopting road/racing bikes simply due to it being more efficient energy wise. Riding a hybrid or MTB into/across the sea breeze is significantly more fatiguing.

Many people here also cycle casually for exercise. These are more leisurely rides specifically for fitness. It is rarer for people to ride to the shops, restaurant or a friends house. Why? because they don't want to turn up sweaty in summer or wet in winter.

Note that cycling in general has grown in popularity in the past decade here, regardless of the above:

http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6237-cycling-participation...

Australians are a sports mad bunch. We have had the Tour de France televised on a free-to-air channel for over 20 years now. Since the early 2000's this lead to many more people becoming interested in road cycling, especially men. This resulted in more cyclists on the roads (especially MAMILs). The increased number of cyclists on the roads, has in turn lead to more people being inspired to get on they bike for a leisure ride or to try cycling to work. Prior to that many people I spoke to would cite having to ride on the road as a big factor in deciding not to try cycle commuting as they perceived it as too dangerous.

So cycling as a sport has had a big part to play in getting more people cycling in general over here.

[brnt]

I lived in France where such temperatures were also the norm. In the Netherlands there is rain that will get everywhere.

Accepting these discomforts is part of cycling in my view. Iets always foreigners who complain about such discomforts (my wife is ons of thema ;)), Dutch people simply accept it.

[megablast]

This is a joke. Australia is one of the best places for cycling, weather wise. I’ve never missed a work day. And that’s in Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.

The only problem with Australia is the majority are addicted to cars, so much do they can’t imagine going anywhere without them.

[fian]

Do _most_ people at your work cycle in? I work in a large office tower where thousands of people work. A small minority cycle to work. There are very good end of trip facilities (lockers, showers, irons, spin dryers, drying cabinets etc) available. I'd estimate there are 100 bike racks available. The bike racks get pretty full during spring and autumn when the temperatures are in the 20s (celcius) and there is no rain forecast. During the height of summer the patronage drops off (maybe 70%). During winter patronage drops markedly (often well below 40%, especially if rain is forecast).

I have been cycle commuting to school, university and various workplaces since the 80's on BMX and MTBs. I started out commuting in casual clothes (school), continued with casual clothes when I began cycling significantly further to university, but needed to carry a change of clothes due to sweat or rain. I joined the university cycle club and was introduced (admittedly with considerable skepticism) to the benefits of lycra (less chafe, faster to dry) and eventually also bought a road bike. The road bike made a big difference to my commute times/effort.

As a post grad student I had access to showers in my department. So I could ride faster/further (for fun) then shower and change before starting my day. Almost all my work places since leaving university have had shower facilities that allowed me to continue cycle commuting. Almost all the other cycle commuters at those work places that rode more than ~5km would opt to shower also. Why? because they got sweaty or wet and dirty.

If the weather is so good for cycling why do people want the end of trip shower?

By far most people I have worked with will not cycle commute at all (too far, too hard, don't want to mess up their hair with a helmet, too unsafe on the roads, take too long etc). Of those that did cycle commute, many are not all year round commuters, for the reasons I outlined above.

You may be comfortable riding in all kinds of weather. My experience is that the vast majority of Australians are not - even when end of trip facilities are available.

[donjoe]

Isn't Australia enforcing helmets since the 90s which led to a decrease in overall bicycle use?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_Australia

[marktangotango]

I worked at bike shops for several years in college. We'd sometimes get the customers who would ask, how is this bike worth $X more than a bike I can get at Walmart? All you'd have to do is get them on the bike for a test ride. The difference is night and day. Given that, I feel like the goal of the Coast project wasn't necessarily to increase ridership, but to increase profits margins with a clever doo-dad.

There's always been a lot of hand wringing by cycling enthusiasts in the US about increasing ridership, and being more approachable, better group rides may be one way to do it. There are a lot of obstacles here; road conditions (potholes), hilly in a lot of areas (it does not take a steep or long grade to flummux a introductory or casual rider!), but at the end of the day, cycling is just dangerous. American car culture is not friendly to anything else being on the road (talk to motorcyclists for example!). When I think back on some of the close calls I had, and accidents my friends had simply riding around, I'm kind of amazed I was ever that fearless.

[jrockway]

I too have had enough close calls to rethink the whole thing.

One time I was riding on Second Avenue. The bike lane turned into a 30 foot deep sinkhole with a couple cones marking the hazard. By the time I noticed, there was a long flatbed truck in the lane next to me. I merged over and had what felt like an inch of space to ride in -- 30 foot drop to my death to the right, big unaware truck to the left. The truck moved over to the right for no good reason and the tires rubbed off most of the skin on my left arm. One more inch and my username would be talking_panckake. (Just kidding, I'd be dead!)

Another time I was riding on First Avenue. First Avenue has one of those bike lanes that's next to the sidewalk, and parked cars separate you from traffic. Some idiot, and I don't use that term lightly, decided to walk their bike off the sidewalk right in front of me, and position it at a right angle to the traffic flow. I was going too fast to stop that quickly and plowed right into the bike. (The rider noticed me and jumped back onto the sidewalk, saving himself from any injury.) My main memory was flying through the air and seeing my bike flying right next to me. I landed on my arm like an idiot and my right shoulder popped out. I popped it back in and rode 40 more miles that day... but it wasn't pleasant. I now have the ability to dislocate my right shoulder on demand!

I don't think those two events were what killed bike commuting for me, but I was pretty shy for a few months after each of those incidents. What killed it for me was the constant close calls that don't really make good stories (and a lack of shower facilities at my most recent workplace). I still bike early in the morning. Very few idiots out and I can go fast for a couple hours and then take the subway to work.

But yeah. I consider myself a seasoned cycling veteran, and in the last 3 or 4 years it just got to be too much for me. I moved to New York City in 2012, and honestly, things were great back then. But over the years, the city just got more and more crowded with cars, and there is no room for bicyclists anymore. (When I visit places like Montreal, I feel great. I think it's just a NYC thing.)

[maxerickson]

No one who doesn't own it thinks that low profile bike clothing is cool.

Or rather, only people that own low profile bike clothing think it is cool.

https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2015/11/13

[soared]

My comment to a very similar reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25596163

[maxerickson]

I enjoy cycling quite a lot.

[tjr225]

There is a large trend growing in the cycling world that is focused on the non-competitive aspect of cycling. As someone who used to be a somewhat competitive cyclist I have fully adapted to this trend because it is probably the coolest and most wholesome trend I have ever experienced. Even the big manufacturers are trying to catch up.

Bikes can get you to work, to the store, to a camp site, around the park, whatever. Cheaper, cleaner, and more fun than cars at the same time.

[EpicEng]

>If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear

No one aside from you and other people who wear that unnecessary gear think it looks cool. Sorry.

I don't imagine this is why your friends won't ride with you.

[soared]

You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant.

The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing. Regardless of the situation (biking, at work, or talking to women at bars) not knowing what you're doing and having that be publicly visible can be a huge hurdle to overcome.

[EpicEng]

>You are misunderstanding my point and injecting your own dislike for bikers where it isn't relevant.

Am I? You typed this, not me.

>They are afraid of looking like an idiot. If they ride with me I look really cool with a slick bike and low profile gear, while they are riding a walmart bike in baggy shorts with a dumb helmet, while visible to hundreds of people in cars.

How exactly did I misinterpret that? You think you look cool and knowledgeable and that's why no one wants to ride with you. You don't, and that's probably not why they won't ride with you.

>The difference is looking like you know what you're doing, and looking like you have no idea what you're doing.

People who spend gobs of money on all of that gear don't look like they know what they're doing; they look like middle aged men and women cosplaying people who knows what they're doing. It's unnecessary and nothing more than a fashion statement.

I think it's you who misunderstands how most of the world views your spandex. And I have no "dislike for bikers"; I dislike the snotty attitude some of them have about their dumb, pointless, overpriced gear that, uh... makes them slightly faster while riding down Main street I guess? When I play baseball with my 7 year old I don't feel the urge to throw on cleats and eye black.

[soared]

I am sorry that the clothing cyclists wear illicits so much anger in you.

[enriquto]

> I am sorry that the clothing cyclists wear illicits so much anger in you.

By "cyclist" do you mean "roadie"? This is a fairly narrow view; most cyclists use bikes for commuting, not for sport. I consider myself an avid cyclist and I find lycra kits extremely ridiculous; for my commute I just use regular work clothes. I'm actually a bit ashamed to use a bike when I cross these fat idiots with obnoxious colorful clothes on their carbon bikes, as I don't want to be identified with them in any way.

[EpicEng]

Right. You make a pretty plain statement, I disagree, and I'm a troll. Ridiculous. Whatever you have to tell yourself bud.

Edit: Seems you edited that bit out huh? Now I'm just angry. Ok.

[IfOnlyYouKnew]

If you ever mentioned this idea to any friends, they are probably biking quite a lot but aren't going to tell you.

And if it's the helmet, bike, and shorts that are so embarrassing (they are not): how is going to a gym going to change that?