[CapmCrackaWaka]

I know my comment will be lost in a sea of voices, but I need to share my experience _somewhere_ else other than amazon reviews. I got my fiancé two Christmas presents this year - both bought off Amazon. One was an electronic keyboard that was dead on arrival, the other was a snuggie type blanket that started falling apart yesterday. Both items had thousands of 5 star reviews.

I usually go somewhere (anywhere) else besides Amazon because I have had bad experiences in the past, but this was the only place I could find the niche keyboard because it's an older model. I now have a firm rule that I will never order from Amazon again.

[coldpie]

I've completely stopped ordering from Amazon, for three reasons: they have too much market power, they have serious ethics problems, and their 3rd party seller program has made the buying experience garbage. Welcome to the club.

[ethbr0]

I've come full circle and only order books (usually used) or things I don't care if they're Chinese bargain-version off Amazon anymore.

Target, or occasionally Walmart, gets what used to be Amazon's business from me.

[coldpie]

Even books aren't safe. Support your local booksellers! https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/amazo...

[dan-robertson]

Even for non-counterfeit books, I’ve often got shit quality print-on-demand versions with plates that look like an inkjet printer running low on ink and with the letters having fuzzy boundaries.

[aaron-santos]

I purchased a book this year which included encoding errors. Original greek text which amounted to a couple of quotes was replaced with garbage output. Tables were printed but unformatted. Furthermore, it only included the first 1/2 of the text. The entire second half of the book was missing. I could look past many of these except for the last. Selling half a book is fraud.

[steelframe]

For books I've gone from buying on a Kindle to Kobo+OverDrive which I use to check out e-books from the library. But I'm one of those freaks who actually prefers e-ink devices over dead tree books.

[Moru]

So instead of dead tree books it's better with dead ecosystem electronics? :)

Have you seen what they do in China too get those rare earth minerals needed for electronics and batteries?

[80mph]

I love my Kobo e-reader. Syncs perfectly with my library and Pocket, and using the natural light feature hasn't hampered my ability to fall asleep.

[hinkley]

B & H photos has done right by me so far. CDW seems okay. Newegg appears to have vendors reselling stuff from Amazon with markup. And while you can filter third party out, you quickly discover Newegg doesn’t have much inventory.

[nicwolff]

Last year I ordered a high-priced item from Newegg, received a different model from a reseller, and returned it – then ordered it from Walmart and got the same different model from the same reseller! Finally CDW sent me the correct product.

[cratermoon]

Newegg went down the toilet in 2016 when Liaison Interactive bought it out.

Adorama is also good and, like B&H, you can't do any business with them on Saturday.

[coldpie]

Has any retail company ever gotten better after being bought out (thinking NewEgg, Toys R Us, Guitar Center...)? Some incentive is fucked up if decent businesses are being run into the ground.

[cratermoon]

Toys R Us and Guitar Center are among the retailers bought by private equity firms explicitly so the investors could wring the value out of the company and throw the remains in the dumpster. G.I. Joes was another. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/toys-r-...

By the way the remnants of Toys R Us are now owned by Tru Toys and they are looking to make a comeback.

[jamiek88]

Vulture capitalists bleed them to death. Toys R Us is particularly sad as their business was strong.

[jurassic]

I 100% agree, B&H is my goto for anything photo or tech related.

[steelframe]

tl;dr: I expect to get something with shoddy build quality from Newegg, but at least the reviews seem non-gamed.

After a few months of lackadaisically making sporadic attempts to order an RTX 3080, I finally threw in the towel and ordered a prebuilt machine which will come with whatever brand 3080 card is in stock at the time from Newegg. I could really use the CPU upgrade anyway, and the markup on the parts isn't at all bad compared to the markup from scalpers, who I refuse to do business with on principle.

The reviews on Newegg at least seem not-gamed. They're largely, "Quality parts slapped together and shipped unprotected, so I received the box with cards and RAM modules unseated and case parts bent due to being thrown around during shipping." I'm going to end up merging parts from two systems to produce a watercooled variant anyway, so all I really care about is just getting the parts, in particular the 3080, at this point.

[SkyMarshal]

>I'm going to end up merging parts from two systems to produce a watercooled variant anyway, so all I really care about is just getting the parts, in particular the 3080, at this point.

Fwiw you still run a risk that the CPU heatsink or something similar will come dislodged during shipping, and tumble around inside like a wrecking ball, smashing up the CPU, 3080 and the other parts you want to keep.

I learned this the hard way. There's a difference between how computers like Dells that are designed for mail order are made, vs modular DIY ones. The interior parts of the former are more strongly locked down inside. They're more likely to be non-standard and difficult or impossible to upgrade, but that's the cost of making them UPS-proof (United Package Smashers).

[colejohnson66]

ahem It’s “United Parcel Smashers”

[nitrogen]

I know a couple of people who've done the same thing -- order a prebuilt machine just to get one of the new CPUs or GPUs. Hopefully it remains unviable for scalpers and thus viable for users who actually want to use what they buy.

[monksy]

Don't give them money if you don't support them doing crappy things. Still using them is giving them money.

Also if you're looking for Chinese knockoffs.. go directly to the source and go with Aliexpress.

[julianlam]

Many Chinese sellers will list items on Amazon for a multiple of the price listed on AliExpress. You're essentially paying a multiple of the price for faster shipping.

[nucleardog]

And a middleman that will give you your money back more or less no questions asked if the product doesn’t match its description.

Getting something in two days instead of two months and being able to get a refund if it was completely misrepresented is easily worth, say (as an example from today), paying $50 for an IP cam instead of $40 from Aliexpress for something with firmware so butchered from upstream it doesn’t even fulfill basic requirements or provide listed functionality anymore. And being stuck with it.

At least the firmware is so full of security holes I can probably find some use for the device one day when I feel like spending another evening with it.

[dasudasu]

Ebay isn't that bad either for cheap Chinese products. Lots of direct Chinese sellers.

[randallsquared]

I would love to use Target or Walmart, but the killer feature that Amazon PrimeNow and Fresh still have for me over all the rivals is that they will not allow me to put something in my cart that they do not have.

That's it. Instacart, Shipt, Seamless (yes, I've bought groceries through Seamless in NYC...), this is all I want from you: let me know what I'm getting.

[coffeefirst]

Bookshop.org and Better World Books are great alternatives to Amazon for new and used respectively.

[hndude]

For used books you could try thriftbooks.com

[georgeecollins]

It is really good to diversify your purchasing. Walmart is often a great alternative to Amazon: Newegg or Bestbuy for consumer electronics; Jensen for bikes; Adafruit or Robotshop for hobby electronics; Apogee for rockets.

[perl4ever]

I can relate to this experience, but the thing is, similar things have happened to me with other retailers, that I think have especially high markups and used to be in my mind decent brands.

I got a shirt from Macy's with sewn in stripes that started to unravel before long, this was many years ago, but I never bought clothes from there again.

And more recently, I got pillow cases from bed bath & beyond, that were very expensive, but otherwise exactly what I wanted, and the seams started coming undone.

Amazon is not a reliable brand, but on the other hand, one can justify trying it again and again, because it is not a single (tainted) brand.

I've said before and will say it again, I read the reviews starting with the worst, as if all the five star reviews were always all fake. I don't know what they might have been for your products, but usually I see no connection between the best reviews and the useful information in the worst.

[afavour]

One extra problem with Amazon is that a lot of products are sold by third party merchants and their site UX seems to deliberately obscure the fact. Same goes for Walmart, though I have less experience using them.

If I order from Amazon, from Amazon, I tend to have good experiences. If I order third party from Amazon it’s a crap shoot.

[tekknik]

Don’t you think it could be argued that proudly displaying something is sold by amazon but displaying nothing for 3rd parties would be an antitrust problem?

Also there is text on the page showing you who the item is sold by, and who it ships from.

[wombat-man]

walmart used to be better about this but now I notice they, and other major retailers are trying to adopt the amazon platform concept.

Sometimes it's easier to just make a list and physically go to a store so I don't need to question whether or not what I'm buying is legit and deal with that stuff.

[silexia]

I bought this exact drone for my nephew and was sorely disappointed by it. I agree with the earlier comments saying that we need to go back to buying from manufacturers in legitimate countries and relying on strong brand names like Sony and the like.

Both Amazon and Walmart are not reliable vendors. Costco does still vet all it's products, I will probably just use them from now on.

[Can_Not]

Anytime I've ordered from Walmart for pick-up, I always seem to receive the item with the worst experation date and most banged-up box.

[mikehollinger]

Best Buy is my secret weapon. For the last couple of years I’ve gotten gifts for people last minute with same day pickup - as small and simple as new earbuds and as large as a color laser printer.

This Christmas I even got an echo show from them when Amazon itself was back ordered past the holidays.

[zucked]

Best Buy has done a pretty admirable job digging out from what seemed like a surefire death sentence. Target and Walmart weren't dead, but Amazon was eating their lunch.

What they are doing much better at now is the hybrid e-commerce/brick and mortar that Amazon is struggling with. Whole Foods helped give them a platform, but Whole Foods are nowhere near as prolific as Target/Walmart/Best Buy.

For all the reasons mentioned throughout this post, Amazon has gone from my first stop to far down on the list when looking to buy something.

[baja_blast]

I have been doing the same, Best Buy/Target/Walmart any big box retailer I know does some quality control. I have purchase way too many products from Amazon that broke immediately, just shockingly terrible quality. And the worst part is Amazon isn't cheap anymore, I have found that they have a 20-30% markup over their competitors and the cheap things just third party fake goods.

IMO buying the cheapest products on Amazon is like using disposable plates and utensils, sure the one time purchase is cheaper than buying dishes and real utensils, but over time it's way more expensive.

Honestly, opening a package from Amazon for a 5 star recommended item that you had high hopes for only to find a cheap piece of garbage is infuriating.

[tekknik]

> And the worst part is Amazon isn't cheap anymore, I have found that they have a 20-30% markup over their competitors and the cheap things just third party fake goods.

I’ve noticed this too, except it’s mostly with health and skin care brands that are trying to use Amazon for free advert / discovery and then push users to their site with lower prices and no Amazon take. I view this as a scumbag move by the vendor myself and find a new product from a vendor not doing this.

[silexia]

Walmart and Amazon both do not quality control vendors. Target and Costco do. Use Costco and Target and Best Buy.

[CapmCrackaWaka]

Yup, best buy is the first place I go for electronics. They don't have nearly the selection as Amazon unfortunately..

[briffle]

Any time I put a less than 5 star review, i get contacted by the seller, who many times offer to send me a free replacement, a newer model, or another product I may be interested in, if I change my review. I have refused, but I imagine many others did that.

[jamiek88]

Ha! I got a shitty appletv stick on holder that dropped off the TV the other day after a couple months, I put up a 1 star review hoping that would happen but it hasn't as yet!

[zucked]

I'm pretty convinced there are a lot of sellers on these third party marketplaces that arrive with a truckload of Widget A - once Widget A sells out, they're gone... on to the next thing or rebranded and selling Widget C. Especially when you're selling a low-margin plastic commodity item.

If you don't get support while they're still actively selling YOUR widget, good luck.

[jamiek88]

Yeah that would make sense, although I've seen the listing slowly morph into another product but retaining the reviews somehow.

[CC38]

Fakespot can help reveal which products have misleading reviews

https://www.fakespot.com/

Obviously it isn't perfect but it does help.

[a_wild_dandan]

I use Fakespot, and I wonder about its accuracy. Seeing a 5-star product given a `D` rating is shocking. If Fakespot is reasonably accurate, then Amazon is inexcusably bad at removing fake reviews. Amazon has orders of magnitude more developer talent and user information than Fakespot to tackle accurate ratings. But I suppose that's the reality of differing incentives...

[kongolongo]

I also question them. It seems a lot easier to accuse Amazon ratings of being poor especially if it feeds into an already existing confirmation bias against Amazon. For all we know Fakespot could just be making all of it up right? How are Fakespots ratings verified? Do I need a Fakespot for Fakespot too? Maybe rating systemes like these are fundamentally flawed.

[silexia]

Just switch to a reliable vendor like Costco or Target and stop buying from Amazon.

[tekknik]

Costco and Targets selection is basically nothing compared to Amazon though. Can I buy an eGPU enclosure, a GPU, and some paper plates from Target or Costco? Then if I have a problem or decide I don’t want them after opening how hard will the return be with Target and Costco?

[CC38]

So you believe that those companies somehow avoid review manipulation? I sure don't.

[doktorhladnjak]

The minimum quality of the items Target and Costco tends to be better. Also, neither allows arbitrary third party items onto their platform. Their buyers choose the items they sell.

In essence, I don't care that much about the reviews. There are fewer of them, and they usually talk more about factual aspects of the item. There are very few "1 star, this is total garbage" type reviews because the retailer has filtered much more of the crap out.

[CC38]

I do think that Amazon is inexcusably bad at removing fake reviews.

However, I think there are some instances where Amazon probably rearranged large numbers of reviews because they found out the reviews were for a different item. It's likely that Fakespot can't tell the difference between mass censorship and legitimate removal. So you do have to take the results with a grain of salt and read recent reviews.

[SevenSpirits]

Amazon does have the disadvantage of being more worth circumventing. I.e. if amazon cracks down on some method of cheating the system, to a large extent the cheaters are going to find some other method of cheating.

Whereas since Fakespot etc are less popular, there's less reason to evade their detection algorithms.

That said, yeah, it sure seems like amazon's doing an awful job for consumers in this area.

[r00fus]

It's likely Amazon. Of course, there are instances where (e.g. mason jars) where fakes may be acceptable as they're commodity products.

It's tiring using Fakespot just to find dozens of D and Fs. For the most part, I use other retailers or just don't buy the item (surprisingly it's a zen option to not buy stuff you don't pressingly need).

[JasonFruit]

They really aren't acceptable, though; they are often not really suitable for pressure canning, and the failure and breakage rate is higher.

[graton]

https://reviewmeta.com/ is another site which does the same sort of thing.

[asimpletune]

That’s a pretty cool app. I love their interface, using the share button to expose the analysis.

[jimmaswell]

This experience is alien to me. I order from Amazon all the time and everything I get is generally fine. Occasionally something breaks after a while or is missing a part but that can happen anywhere and Amazon has extremely generous return policies. If anything I've come to trust AmazonBasics as a reliable brand if I'm deciding between products.

[ry4nolson]

Same. I really feel like this is one of those things where 99+% of people have zero issues and don't comment on stuff like this. Myself and just about everyone I know order from amazon all the time and have very very few issues. And when we do, the return/replace/refund/whatever process is smooth as butter.

[colejohnson66]

Confirmation bias combined with the fact that unhappy people are more likely to leave “reviews”[a] (like here). I’ve never had an issue with Amazon that they haven’t resolved, and it may seem like I’m a minority, but Amazon is the size they are today because, for ever 1 fsck-up, there’s 99 others who didn’t have problems.[b]

[a]: Complaints. Reviews. Etc.

[b]: Not excusing their bad behavior. Just stating the reality.

[throwaway201103]

Maybe this is a longer game by Amazon. Let bogus reviews and bad experiences pile up for third party sellers, slowly driving people to only trust "Amazon Basics." They have nearly perfect knowledge of the profitability of any item, so they know what items they should have under the "Amazon Basics" umbrella. Over time they could expand this into other Amazon "Brands" at varying quality/price points.

[mortenjorck]

I’m surprised there aren’t counterfeit AmazonBasics products by now. Or are those the only listings that disallow third-party / commingled-inventory sellers?

[dasudasu]

They do already have other Amazon brands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Amazon_brands

For instance, Goodthreads is one step above Amazon Essentials for clothing.

[SamBam]

If you're still every looking for instruments, Sweetwater has excellent stuff, and really stellar customer service.

They answered questions by phone before we purchased. I received a keyboard for my daughter, then we had a change of heart and decided we had gotten the wrong one, they handled everything for shipping it back and sending a new one, and called a week later to see if we were happy.

[swiftcoder]

And they will call you once every few months for the rest of your natural life (and then some). Sweetwater is notorious for being a company whose contact list you can never, ever escape from. Change your phone number, move across the country... Sweetwater will find you.

[recursive]

This hasn't been my experience. I have been called by them before, but it's been at least a year. And less than a half a dozen times in my life. And most of those were sometime after a large purchase where they were (claiming) to ask if the thing was working ok.

[SamBam]

Huh, they haven't called once since June, when I bought the keyboard. But it's possible they will in the future, though.

[shadowoflight]

I personally prefer zZounds to Sweetwater, because they're honest about their financing plans instead of making it difficult to realize you're signing up for a credit card until you're halfway through typing in your social.

[jb775]

I cancelled my Prime last year because the "2 day" shipping was consistently taking 4+ days. The final straw was my Halloween mask not arriving by Halloween lol.

Between late deliveries, bait & switch 5-star reviews, and being able to find cheaper prices elsewhere, I now only use Amazon if I can't find a product anywhere else.

[corty]

Agreed. Shipping quality on Amazon has declined massively (before corona), and since marketplace and comingling, products have often become unreliable and even dangerous. On top, there was a forced price raise to sell me videos I didn't want. I did the math and am now prime-free.

[StreamBright]

I was thinking about creating a site (allreviews.com or something) where you could write a review about anything, purchase, service, etc. Not sure about the legal background. Could I face legal challenges having such site in the US?

[colejohnson66]

Review sites are legal, but you’d almost certainly be at risk of defamation lawsuits from unhappy businesses. You’d most likely be in the clear, but it won’t stop them from trying.