[newdude116]

Use your US CC, make charge-backs. Big surprise once for Wizz Air :-)

In general: You have to find a weak spot. I have problems with a scam (ongoing) in an East European EU country and I have been trying to get the authorities for 6 months to act. Even hiring a lawyer has been extraordinary difficult. Most don't reply Emails, others charge exorbitant fees, our last lawyer is MIA so we are trying now with a lawyer that is listed on an embassy website. We are talking here about a loss of a mid 5 figure sum.

After nothing worked, I listened to the advice of a local friend and started to expose people from the government/police that do not act online. Very bold, very nasty, very below the waistline. But now it looks like I finally bombed them to the negotiation table. :-)

[GordonS]

> Use your US CC, make charge-backs

I'm in the UK, and made my first ever charge back a couple of months back, after Ryanair refused to refund a flight that was cancelled due to corona virus (we'd booked it before the pandemic started). I'd paid with my CC (a UK card; not sure why it would be any different with a US CC?). I forget the exact sum, but it was something like £1,500.

Ryanair completely took the piss - they were very clearly trying to hold on to everyone's money for the duration, and ignored communications or offered ridiculous, short-lived credit notes in lieu of a refund. Several months passed like this.

Eventually I read up on how charge backs worked and called my card provider. They sent a form, and within a couple of weeks, the money was back in my account - the whole process was really straightforward, and I fully recommend using it if a vendor is outright refusing to uphold their side of the bargain.

[newdude116]

In my experience charge backs are not so common in mainland Europe. A US CC issuer (and I am a customer since 18 years with the same card) can be much more aggressive about this. I think Wizz air has never dealt with an US CC :-)

Nevertheless I don't abuse this. I only request a charge back if I assume I also would win a lawsuit. But nobody has ever challenged one of my charge backs in court.

[GordonS]

> In my experience charge backs are not so common in mainland Europe

Definitely agree. I'm pushing 40, and this is the first time I've done it. When I talked with friends and colleagues about this (from in the UK, but also from around Europe), I don't think a single person even knew what chargebacks were.

But I don't think I've ever once been in this kind of situation where my hand was forced - companies in Europe generally do the right thing, or at least behave within the boundaries of the law.

[mgkimsal]

Similar dance with Qantas, although we didn't have to use a chargeback. But after several months, we finally got them on the phone, and they said "we'll refund. it may take X days". X+30 days later we had no movement, called again. and they said there was no record, and then offered to refund - but only a partial amount (they weren't seeing extra fee charges on their end). Too much back and forth, but over 8 months after booking, and close to 4 months of calls and waiting, we got refunded, without having to file a chargeback.

[newdude116]

"and close to 4 months of calls and waiting"

This is what charge backs are for. It is not my duty to invest time, nerves and potentially even pay interest for this.

[newdude116]

"I fully recommend using it if a vendor is outright refusing to uphold their side of the bargain."

What is also very stupid since they don't lose only the money but also very likely a customer.

[Normal_gaussian]

They aren't that likely to lose each customer. Ryanair targets cheap flights, their customers are those who discriminate on price. In this instance there is even an externality to point to, shifting the blame - even implicitly.

It also has to be considered that shrinking their market share is viable if it allows the company to survive.

[Symbiote]

Depending where the customer lives and wants to go, Ryanair can easily be 2-12 hours faster than the alternatives.

Especially in Eastern Europe, they might be the only airline with direct flights between smaller cities and Western Europe[1]. There's no way I'm choosing Lufthansa and changing flights in Munich if I can go direct with Ryanair and save 3+ hours.

I've wondered if I show up as this type of customer to Ryanair, since there have been a couple of times when it's been within their terms for them to charge me (e.g. slightly overweight luggage, lost boarding pass) and they haven't.

[1] Destinations from London Luton, almost entirely Ryanair and similar budget airlines -- zoom in to ~Slovakia: https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-london-luton-...

[GordonS]

> their customers are those who discriminate on price

Not only price. We've flown previously with Ryanair numerous times, and I don't think price was ever the deciding factor - they simply fly to a lot of European destinations, so for us it's meant shorter routes.

They've completely lost my trust after this debacle though - their illegal behaviour had been utterly shameful, and I'll go out of my way not to use them in future.

[merb]

> after Ryanair refused to refund a flight that was cancelled due to corona virus

really really doubt that you even tried. In mainland europe you just needed to fill a form, after a month you would have your money back.

[GordonS]

Don't be so bloody rude, why on earth would I make up something like this?

I sent numerous emails, filled in maybe 6 forms, and multiple times had their understaffed online chat system open for up to 8 hours trying to speak to someone - for all the good it did when they answered.

Here in the UK, at the start, yes, Ryanair asked you to fill in a form, and said they would issue refunds within 14 days. I, like several thousand of others, duely filled in the form - only for Ryanair to change their tune a couple of weeks later. My guess was they'd sought legal advice, and found some loophole they thought would allow them to get away with it.

They went several weeks at a time with no general customer communications, and weren't replying to emails - on the rare occasions they did, it was to say they'd process refunds "later". Some weeks later, they sent out a general customer email, saying they'd only be issuing (short-lived!) credit notes instead of refunds, and anyone who declined would have to apply again, and would then have to wait until the pandemic was over for a refund. This whole (illegal!) debacle was very widely reported in the British media.