[skrtskrt]

I guess everyone's different but I feel like a good devs in America can make a damn good living without working for something evil.

You won't be a millionaire in 5 years, but you will be just fine. How much do you really need?

[bradlys]

It really depends on where you live. If you want to own a home, Facebook and similar are really your only options for the Bay Area. Assuming you also want a nice commute, decent schools, etc. stuff that most professionals work towards.

[pc86]

And yet I get pilloried when I dare say that the Bay Area is a bad place to live. The median software dev salary for the US is under $110k. So half the people in the country make less than that, yet even in places with low salaries nationally software developers are well-paid and have no trouble affording housing and growing wealth.

[bradlys]

You’re probably talking to a lot of rich dudes. That’s why they get on your case.

If you’re rich, it’s probably better than all those other places. But, again, need to be rich. And it takes a lot to get there for a person who grew up in a lower socioeconomic class. You’ll spend most of your life trying to get there and stay rather than enjoying the riches. (At least, that’s my experience so far!)

[taylodl]

The reason commonly given for living in the Bay Area is all the jobs available but you're pointing out that's not actually the case because if you want to live well in the Bay Area then you have few employment options. Is that the reality?

[bradlys]

> Is that the reality?

Certainly is for me. The $170k/yr startup salary I get is certainly not enough to afford jack shit around here. Even an extra $50k/yr wouldn't do anything to alter my lifestyle. I couldn't get any kind of home around here with that and I'd still be very uncomfortable renting a home on that income - as it'd be more than a third of my take home pay (lose your job? You better have a very large emergency buffer - unemployment won't even pay a third of your monthly rent).

The engineers I know who stay around here are A) wealthy (bought home long before average price was past $1m or inherited one), B) rent, dual engineer income, and enjoy the renter lifestyle, C) Work at FAANG and/or have a spouse who does and make big fucking $$$$ D) Going to move away, no plans to stay permanently.

There are no young people (<35) moving here, working for no-name companies, and buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years. Almost all young people I know who do such things have A) had a startup IPO or B) work at FAANG.

Certainly can't make it here on a single startup salary - not even in the faintest. I'm proof of that.

The reason people move here is because there's a chance (insert dumb and dumber reference) to strike rich. There's also way more jobs here than anywhere else in the country and that's why I moved here. I couldn't get a job anywhere else but I somehow managed to get one here four times in a row now.

[skrtskrt]

I know plenty of people doing just fine in SF on much less than that 170k.

Yes, they rent. But "buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years" is not a reality in any major metro area at the moment, unless you're fine with small, old, and far out in the suburbs.

[bradlys]

> Yes, they rent. But "buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years" is not a reality in any major metro area at the moment, unless you're fine with small, old, and far out in the suburbs.

Isn't true for people I know in other major cities that are working professionals. Most peers I have in their 30's are buying homes in other major cities - if they are engineers or have a spouse who is an engineer.

I'm not talking about people who work retail. I'm talking specifically about engineers. Engineers in most major cities in the US can afford to buy a home if they have a spouse who works some kind of okay job. This just isn't true in the bay area.

[skrtskrt]

I see - so you're saying that for someone:

* in their 30s - so, say 10 years of engineer-but-not-FAANG salary

* with a spouse who also has a white collar job & about 10 years of savings

they would not have $200k to put down 20% towards a $1M place? Not that putting down 20% is even common anymore, average is ~9%.

I guess I could believe it given how little housing there is in SF - but wow.