[bradlys]

> Is that the reality?

Certainly is for me. The $170k/yr startup salary I get is certainly not enough to afford jack shit around here. Even an extra $50k/yr wouldn't do anything to alter my lifestyle. I couldn't get any kind of home around here with that and I'd still be very uncomfortable renting a home on that income - as it'd be more than a third of my take home pay (lose your job? You better have a very large emergency buffer - unemployment won't even pay a third of your monthly rent).

The engineers I know who stay around here are A) wealthy (bought home long before average price was past $1m or inherited one), B) rent, dual engineer income, and enjoy the renter lifestyle, C) Work at FAANG and/or have a spouse who does and make big fucking $$$$ D) Going to move away, no plans to stay permanently.

There are no young people (<35) moving here, working for no-name companies, and buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years. Almost all young people I know who do such things have A) had a startup IPO or B) work at FAANG.

Certainly can't make it here on a single startup salary - not even in the faintest. I'm proof of that.

The reason people move here is because there's a chance (insert dumb and dumber reference) to strike rich. There's also way more jobs here than anywhere else in the country and that's why I moved here. I couldn't get a job anywhere else but I somehow managed to get one here four times in a row now.

[skrtskrt]

I know plenty of people doing just fine in SF on much less than that 170k.

Yes, they rent. But "buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years" is not a reality in any major metro area at the moment, unless you're fine with small, old, and far out in the suburbs.

[bradlys]

> Yes, they rent. But "buying homes after saving for a down payment after a few years" is not a reality in any major metro area at the moment, unless you're fine with small, old, and far out in the suburbs.

Isn't true for people I know in other major cities that are working professionals. Most peers I have in their 30's are buying homes in other major cities - if they are engineers or have a spouse who is an engineer.

I'm not talking about people who work retail. I'm talking specifically about engineers. Engineers in most major cities in the US can afford to buy a home if they have a spouse who works some kind of okay job. This just isn't true in the bay area.

[skrtskrt]

I see - so you're saying that for someone:

* in their 30s - so, say 10 years of engineer-but-not-FAANG salary

* with a spouse who also has a white collar job & about 10 years of savings

they would not have $200k to put down 20% towards a $1M place? Not that putting down 20% is even common anymore, average is ~9%.

I guess I could believe it given how little housing there is in SF - but wow.

[bradlys]

Depends on the people. $180k + $80k is only $260k. It's enough to get a house at $1m but you'll be somewhat house poor. You have to assume they haven't been saving at $180+$80k that entire time unless you're assuming they're late 30's.

9% down isn't common for Bay Area btw. 30-45% of all homes are bought with cash (higher value the property - higher the all cash offer %). Do you think those numbers are like that in other parts of the country? Do you think you can get by with <10% down for a jumbo loan? The people I know who bought here have either paid all cash or had to put down even more than 20%.

We haven't even discussed what a $1m home gets you here. I wouldn't buy a $1m home here. You will not get a nice home or neighborhood. Minimum $1.5m to break into the decent neighborhoods. Want something resembling what the rest of the professional middle class has? At least $2m+.