[eitland]

I've read books upon books on Israeli history, general middle East history, the Iran-Iraq conflict etc since I got interested back in 1994, so I'm probably more aware of many of the nuances than many others.

I feel extremely sorry for the poor Palestinian people but I place the blame mostly where I think it fairly and squarely belongs: on the thoroughly botched UN.

Also note that just because media keep repeating the Palestinian myth doesn't mean it is true. The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created.

It was always part of Syria, Iraq, Egypt or something else.

[whimsicalism]

> The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created

There were people who lived in a place and they were kicked out of their homes by the UN mandate.

I don't think whether Palestine had been incorporated into the Western westphalian system is really relevant to the moral claims at hand.

[eitland]

> There were people who lived in a place and they were kicked out of their homes by the UN mandate.

In the same way as Jews were kicked out of their homes all the way to Iraq. The difference being that Israel took care of the Jews while the Arabs used their Palestinian brothers as pawns in an international chess game.

> I don't think whether Palestine had been incorporated into the Western westphalian system is really relevant to the moral claims at hand.

Good point. I've already pointed out my opinion about UN above and it seems we aren't too far apart on certain points.

[milani]

> Also note that just because media keep repeating the Palestinian myth doesn't mean it is true. The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created.

I don't get the point here. Whether it was named Palestinian or not, it doesn't change the fact that Israel occupied those territories! We are talking about land, not names.

Well, in those books that you read, was it mentioned why Hezbollah was created and what it is doing now? Would you say they are terrorists but Israeli government is not? And what would you say if someone acts directly in a terror operation or via proxies? Does it matter?

[eitland]

> I don't get the point here. Whether it was named Palestinian or not, it doesn't change the fact that Israel occupied those territories! We are talking about land, not names.

The point is that kind of like in Pakistan/India UN decided to split the area in two ethnic areas.

In the middle east 70% was given to the Arabs and 30% to the Jews.

(Well kept secret: While the international community keep asking for a state for the Palestinian people it has existed since the start. It is called Jordan and was created on 70% of the land that was considered for the Jewish national home.)

Again: I'm not here to defend UNs actions, only (parts of) what Israel has done afterwards.

> Would you say they are terrorists but Israeli government is not?

That is absolutely my opinion yes.

The Israeli government is a democratic government. Hezbollah was a terrorist organization last I heard.

(Actually I looked it up right now. Here is what Wikimedia says:

> Either the entire organization or just its military wing has been designated a terrorist organization by at least 21 countries, by the European Union and since 2017 by most member states of the Arab League, with the exception of Iraq and Lebanon, where Hezbollah is the most powerful political party.)

[milani]

> That is absolutely my opinion yes. > Hezbollah was a terrorist organization last I heard.

Ok, I needed to hear those! So the books didn't teach you much.

[milani]

By the way, if you need to hear it from former CIA director:

>I do not know whether a foreign government authorized or carried out the the murder of Fakhrizadeh. Such an act of state-sponsored terrorism would be a flagrant violation of international law & encourage more governments to carry out lethal attacks against foreign officials.

https://twitter.com/JohnBrennan/status/1332400793559949312?s...

Your beloved democracy can be terrorist too. We have good reasons to believe Israel was behind the attack. Even if not in this case, there are a dozen more.

[dragonwriter]

> The has never been a Palestinian country before 1948 when Israel was created.

> It was always part of Syria, Iraq, Egypt or something else.

Syria (1946) and Iraq (1933) were also never distinct sovereign countries until decolonialization of British and French Mandatory territories in the 20th Century, either, and neither ever included Palestine.