[lotsofpulp]

Employers are rude and taking advantage of people. A person paying what they are asked and stated to pay is not being rude and taking advantage of people.

When I was younger, there was tipping for waiters. Now, if someone hands you a drink, they swivel an iPad around and present an option for a 25% tip.

[klodolph]

The system is unjust, and you are paying less than what is expected of you, and you benefit from this because your meals are partially subsidized by people around you who are tipping, so you benefit and others suffer by your decision.

[dTal]

Conversely, the decision to tip perpetuates an unjust system that relieves employers of the duty to properly compensate their staff, thus throwing the responsibility on the people around you, for the purely selfish reason of conformity. If nobody tipped, ever, we would still have wait staff. The only way to break the cycle is to stop tipping.

[klodolph]

> The only way to break the cycle is to stop tipping.

As a coordinated social movement, yes. However, if you are only an individual person making an individual choice to not tip, then you are making a purely selfish act to benefit from the unjust system.

[matz1]

>then you are making a purely selfish act to benefit from the unjust system

So what is the downside for that individual?

[edmundsauto]

Being ridiculed and ostracized by their social circle for being cheap (assuming comfortable personal finances).

[ghaff]

If a co-worker simply refuses to tip as a matter of "principle" I will simply defer from associating with that individual in restaurants/bars.

[matz1]

Well, not everyone, I wouldn't redicule or ostracize my social circle for not tipping.

[lotsofpulp]

While I do tip waiters since that is the norm, I don’t tip others. I also don’t purchase food delivery since the cost to quality ratio is ridiculously high to me, especially considering the tips people now expect.

But the system is unjust because people keep rewarding those who make the system unjust. Mainly employers and the tip receivers who like to evade taxes. Both of these can be fixed by greatly increasing minimum wages or implementing a universal basic income.

[klodolph]

I don’t think low-paid workers receiving cash tips should be paying much in taxes to begin with.

Instead, I think the system should require me and others like me to pay more in taxes.

[lotsofpulp]

Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that. That is accomplished with marginal income tax rates.

[klodolph]

> Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that.

I can only choose among the options I am given, and the ideal system is not one of them. I can either choose to tip someone, and maybe they don’t pay taxes on it, which increases the tax burden for everyone else, or I can choose not to tip someone, which means that person suffers just for the unfortunate coincidence that I am their customer.

Let’s say that the normal tip is $5. If I choose to tip someone and they don’t pay taxes, perhaps their marginal tax rate is 12% and this is 60¢ in lost tax revenue.

Given a choice between “60¢ in federal tax revenue” or “$5 in income for a low-wage worker”, the correct moral choice becomes stark clear, in my mind.

[lotsofpulp]

The choice in your example is between $4.40 in income or $5 in income, unless I’m missing something.

Also, above you wrote that someone that doesn’t tip is being subsidized by those who do tip. Isn’t that the same with evading taxes? Why should certain lower paid jobs have to pay taxes and subsidize those in food service because they have the ability to evade taxes?

The incentives get even more screwed up when the tip receivers start advocating against non tipped wages.