[lotsofpulp]

While I do tip waiters since that is the norm, I don’t tip others. I also don’t purchase food delivery since the cost to quality ratio is ridiculously high to me, especially considering the tips people now expect.

But the system is unjust because people keep rewarding those who make the system unjust. Mainly employers and the tip receivers who like to evade taxes. Both of these can be fixed by greatly increasing minimum wages or implementing a universal basic income.

[klodolph]

I don’t think low-paid workers receiving cash tips should be paying much in taxes to begin with.

Instead, I think the system should require me and others like me to pay more in taxes.

[lotsofpulp]

Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that. That is accomplished with marginal income tax rates.

[klodolph]

> Evading taxes with cash tips for food service workers is not the way to accomplish that.

I can only choose among the options I am given, and the ideal system is not one of them. I can either choose to tip someone, and maybe they don’t pay taxes on it, which increases the tax burden for everyone else, or I can choose not to tip someone, which means that person suffers just for the unfortunate coincidence that I am their customer.

Let’s say that the normal tip is $5. If I choose to tip someone and they don’t pay taxes, perhaps their marginal tax rate is 12% and this is 60¢ in lost tax revenue.

Given a choice between “60¢ in federal tax revenue” or “$5 in income for a low-wage worker”, the correct moral choice becomes stark clear, in my mind.

[lotsofpulp]

The choice in your example is between $4.40 in income or $5 in income, unless I’m missing something.

Also, above you wrote that someone that doesn’t tip is being subsidized by those who do tip. Isn’t that the same with evading taxes? Why should certain lower paid jobs have to pay taxes and subsidize those in food service because they have the ability to evade taxes?

The incentives get even more screwed up when the tip receivers start advocating against non tipped wages.

[klodolph]

> The choice in your example is between $4.40 in income or $5 in income, unless I’m missing something.

If I do tip, the person I tip gets $5 and evades paying 60¢ in taxes. If I don’t tip, that person gets $0, and presumably I get to spend that $5 on something else and the taxes will be paid.

> Also, above you wrote that someone that doesn’t tip is being subsidized by those who do tip. Isn’t that the same with evading taxes?

Yes, it is the same, but the numbers are different and the parties who benefit are different.

- If a worker earning tips doesn’t pay 60¢ in taxes, then that’s like the worker being subsidized 60¢ by everyone who does pay taxes.

- If I don’t pay a worker $5 in tips, then that’s like me being subsidized $5 by everyone who does pay tips.

I am fairly certain that the marginal utility of $5 is higher to the person I am tipping than it is to me, and the societal cost is lower, and it’s what’s expected of me. Now, why I don’t just empty my wallet for everybody I see on the street is an entirely different discussion, but the morality of the choice to tip / not tip $5 when that is the expected amount seems pretty cut and dry from where I’m standing.

I’d also say that if I discovered that one of my friends refused to tip service workers, I’d definitely file that information away in my brain as evidence that this “friend” is untrustworthy, of poor moral character, and that I may also risk embarrassment by associating with them.