[Bedon292]

I always attempt to write, even on Slack or other chat programs, in such a way that no unintended tone comes across. To me it feels like I have failed in communicating if an emoji is necessary to convey a message. I honestly cannot think of anywhere I could use them to make a message clearer. But, I will be asking a few folks if there is an issue with my communication, and if I can be more clear in any way. Including the use of emoji.

To me, it also feels less professional, but this thread has opened my eyes to this bias I have. So I am going to attempt to make less of a judgement on this moving forward.

[tashoecraft]

I think with just the shear amount of messaging that is occurring in todays age combined with the lines being blurred between work and home makes communication rapidly evolve. What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree.

An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive aggressive.

[bavila]

> An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive aggressive.

I can see how some might take a single "Ok." that way, but it probably really does depend a lot on context and the nature of the relationship. I tend to acknowledge most people's comments in a very mater-of-fact manner, but I feel adding a simple "thank you" (as in "Ok, thank you.") helps to dispel the raw bluntness of a plain "Ok."

"Please", "sorry", and "thank you"--these magic words can work wonders.

[neodymiumphish]

To be fair, I'm over 30 and I'd wonder whether "Ok." was passive aggressive in-person or online.

[Aeolun]

It’s a tone of voice thing I think.

[elwell]

> An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive aggressive.

Definitely have experienced this.

> shear

sheer

> What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree.

thinks

> todays

today's

> age combined with the lines being blurred between work and home makes

age, combined with the lines being blurred between work and home, makes

> I think with just the... ...makes communication rapidly evolve

I think just the... ...makes communication rapidly evolve

> over, say, 50 do / under, say 30, this

over, say, 50 do / under, say, 30 this

> passive aggressive

passive-aggressive

[robocat]

Correcting someone’s English is usually seen as a sign of social posturing, because higher education is often related to someone’s self-perception of social status ranking. It takes a extremely skilled approach to do it without causing offence.

It is especially poor form on HN, because you cannot know whether English is their second language, or whether there are other reasons for mistakes (such as being in a hurry, having dyslexia, or having a disability.)

[koyote]

If you are a native English speaker, higher education should not be required for basic writing. There is no requirement to use complicated words, but I'd expect someone to be able to spell correctly (especially on a device with spell checking).

If you are not a native speaker, corrections are one way to learn from your mistakes and improve your English.

If you are in a hurry then maybe you should wait until you are not in a hurry before posting to HN.

I do agree that correcting someone often comes across in a bad way, but at the same time so does leaving a comment riddled with mistakes.

[setr]

I see the issue as more pretentious than anything else -- I know how to spell correctly, I have fucking spellcheck just like you do, but I don't give enough of a damn to go back through and right click every dumb typo and issue; especially when im typing on a phone or a shitty chat app with random delays

If the only thing you got from my whole post is my missed period, especially if my post was a response/argument to whatever you claimed, you're either a moron or intentionally trying to one-up me in an aspect that nobody cares about

Grammar is not a signal of intelligence in short-form communications. In long-form/formal communications, it's a minimum barrier to entry (if you can't even be assed to type your name properly, why should I bother with your 50 page paper?), but different context, different systems, different rules

[elwell]

> if you can't even be assed to type your name properly, why should I bother with your 50 page paper?

There has to be line somewhere though...

[elwell]

Sorry, it was just too hard to pass up the irony embedded in this sentence:

"What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree."

> It is especially poor form on HN

I totally get that I was being annoying. At same time, if there's anywhere one can indulge in the art of being overly pedantic, is it not here?

> having dyslexia, or having a disability

In that case, I would feel bad for jokingly correcting them. Yes, it is hard to know the person behind the keyboard.

[viraptor]

The worst case for fixing someone's typo is when you know their first language isn't English and assume that's where the mistake comes from. 99% of the time I make mistakes due to swipe/predictive input changing something I don't notice. Yet it gets pointed out by someone repeatedly writing "should of" or asking for simple spelling advice.

[Phrodo_00]

As an ESL speaker, I appreciate people who make an effort to correct me.

[elwell]

> As an ESL speaker, I appreciate people who make an effort to correct me.

A flawless sentence!

[Phrodo_00]

:)

[Aeolun]

Depends on what you are correcting I think. Correcting shear to sheer was the immediate thing I mentally did when reading the message, because if you don’t, people will keep doing this wrong in more important settings too.

All the punctuation is less important and I wouldn’t really bother with it.

[scubbo]

> passive-aggressive

Well, you weren't lying...

[elwell]

Irony is in the eye of beholder

[Aeolun]

Sorry, the last few corrections didn’t make any sense even after correction.

[Izkata]

Muphry's law in action. On the second-to-last, they moved a comma (wrongly), and completely missed the major typo (possibly just autocorrected back to the wrong thing). It should be: "over, say, 50 yo" ("yo" being short for "years old"), and the other half should always have a comma after "30" (the one after "say" is optional depending on where they put pauses when they speak).

[elwell]

Here is the original text:

> I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often

Here is your 'corrected' version:

> I see many over, say, 50 yo this much more often

Any-way, i was indiccating the nead for conssisstency, not absulute corectness,,,

[pikelet]

Just remember that beyond words, our expressions, gestures, and tone, are all important parts of effective human communication, and text lacks all of that. Subtlety in meaning or intent can change while still using the same words. Slack isn't formal writing, it's more casual communication between humans, and emojis just make it all a little less ambiguous. I certainly agree that you should try to be as clear as possible, and that overuse of emojis can be tiresome, but there are definitely situations where a simple emoji or two can make all the difference in how your words are perceived.

[conradev]

Comparing Slack to email, in an email I generally provide a feedback sandwich: start with a positive note or warm introduction, transition into a call to action with explanatory details, and again end on a positive note.

In Slack I find that I can use emoji in lieu of some of the positivity, if that makes sense.

If I have any takeaway from this conversation it is that I should use _more_ emoji simply because a lot of emotional context is being lost through the internet. I feel like this is especially important because I manage people and my tone can really matter.

[jay_kyburz]

I agree, I think the only appropriate time for an emoji is to acknowledge somebodies else's message but you don't have anything you want to say. A thumbs up or a celebrate.

[stu2b50]

I disagree, I think there's many times where a statement can clearly seem hostile, or jovial, at the same time, and adding some emojis to lean towards jovial will make it a 100% safe message.

Sure, you can add context in other ways, but it's quick, easy, and effective. Is it unprofessional? Perhaps in an email, but I don't consider every slack message something that should be "professional" in tone. You don't speak professionally to every person IRL (or, at least I hope you don't).

[Twisol]

I have a small group of emoji that I turn to for this kind of color. :sweat_smile: for a note of self-aware awkwardness. :thinking: when I'm posing an idea without standing behind it too hard, or when my thoughts are continuing beyond the message I've just sent. A few others are not uncommon, but more situational.

(I'm using their Slack codes here, since I'm not sure I can just embed them directly in an HN comment...)

I tend to come across in text as very detail-oriented and precise, so some careful emoji usage helps recover some of the consideration that would normally be carried by tone or body language.

[adjkant]

This type of use is exactly what I was talking about in my original post. It does wonders for positive communication. Even if some don't see the need for it, as the article discusses, you need to consider your full audience!

[ghaff]

I mostly just use the 3 or 4 "base" emojis. But, particularly in relatively terse emails/messages, I think it's often useful to indicate that you don't intend to be taken literally/totally seriously/etc. I suppose that you can just avoid making flippant remarks and such but that's not the way most people communicate casually in person.