[seleniumBubbles]

This whole case just makes me incredibly sad.

Two federal agents tampered with important evidence, likely fabricated the entire “murder for hire” fiction, abused their law enforcement positions to steal millions of dollars worth of bitcoins, and carefully framed other people.

The literally corrupt federal agents got a slap on the wrist. They’ll both be out of prison soon.

But the young man who built a website for weed is to remain in prison for life.

What a sad, miscarriage of justice.

[rubidium]

"website for weed" is underplaying the crime. All the major illegal drugs were sold... including those which have no place existing in the world.

Yes, major corruption on the federal side. But not much sympathy for the crime here, esp. as it was so intentional and lucrative.

[swiley]

The whole "XYZ material shouldn't exist in the world" thing seems so naive. It's not hard to manufacture most things and people always will find ways to do it. If we want to use legislation to help people then we should do that but using violence and prisons probably isn't helping anyone.

[3pt14159]

I disagree.

It's not hard to find a zero day in software used for parts of our critical infrastructure. It's not hard to create potent drugs from small amounts of precursors. It's not hard to build a gun or a bomb in a machine shop.

But the thing is, most people that have those skills are not malicious. At worst, they're money-motivated and will sell these types of society damaging substances or objects, but with the long arm of the law and a credible threat of jail time most of the people that would try to make a quick buck are dissuaded from doing so, or at least slowed by the resultant paranoia.

I know it's not perfect. I know many illegal drugs should be legal and I know that people outside of the western world smuggle in or transmit these things that damage our society, but that doesn't invalidate our struggle. We cannot live in a lawless society and though I think that it is better to cut the root causes of things like drug abuse, we still need to keep dangerous drugs to a minimum.

[swiley]

>But the thing is, most people that have those skills are not malicious. At worst, they're money-motivated and will sell these types of society damaging substances or objects, but with the long arm of the law and a credible threat of jail time most of the people that would try to make a quick buck are dissuaded from doing so, or at least slowed by the resultant paranoia.

If this were the actually the case and people with those skills weren't malicious and were dissuaded by the law then the only way to obtain those substances would be to manufacture them yourself. As it stands you can find sellers on Instagram so that's clearly wrong.

[JohnBooty]

    It's not hard to manufacture most things and people 
    always will find ways to do it.

Ever hear of a drug addict becoming so desperate that they start manufacturing their own drugs for personal use? Aside from growing pot, which I wouldn't call "manufacturing", not once have I ever heard of this happening. If it's so "not hard", why doesn't this happen?

Manufacturing drugs isn't difficult on the order of refining uranium or something, but it's not trivial. You need knowledge, gear, raw materials that are not all trivial to obtain, and a location where you pull off some kind of small-scale chemical manufacturing operation without getting caught.

    If we want to use legislation to help people then we should 
    do that but using violence and prisons probably isn't 
    helping anyone.

I would certainly agree that we should not criminalize drug users of any sort.

Suppliers and manufacturers of deadly drugs are another story.

    The whole "XYZ material shouldn't exist in the world" thing 
    seems so naive.

What's naive is lumping all recreational drugs together with blanket statements like these.

Recreational drugs run the gamut from nearly harmless (marijuana, etc) to absolutely deadly (heroin, fentanyl, etc). In a just and logical world, they would never even be a part of the same discussion.

At the deadly end of the spectrum, yes, I certainly do feel confident in saying that some drugs have absolutely no place in society. I have seen what they do. I have been to the funerals for friends, loved ones, and family members. There is no safe way to use heroin. Drugs like meth, heroin, and crack destroy lives and towns.

It is the laziest and most naive possible libertarian dream to think that people should be allowed to supply deadlier drugs to people because of one's lasses-faire fever dreams. It's the kind of isolated, privileged fantasy that evaporates quickly when you have to identify your son in a morgue.

[FDSGSG]

>Ever hear of a drug addict becoming so desperate that they start manufacturing their own drugs for personal use? Aside from growing pot, which I wouldn't call "manufacturing", not once have I ever heard of this happening. If it's so "not hard", why doesn't this happen?

Shake and bake meth is hardly uncommon.

[yipbub]

> "website for weed" is underplaying the crime. All the major illegal drugs were sold... including those which have no place existing in the world.

Decriminalization of all drugs does seem to be something being taken very seriously. Reduces abuse, harm, and violent crime.

[ofcrookedtimber]

"no place existing in the world"?

Jesus this mentality is so stuck in the stone age and what enables the vile & pernicious war on drugs to continue.

[xtian]

The “war on drugs” has exacted a higher human toll on our society than any of the substances which you claim “have no place existing in the world.” Do some research.

[cooljacob204]

I still don't think anyone deserves life in prison for creating a drug exchange website.

[justforyou]

>> including those which have no place existing in the world.

Superstitious puritanical attitudes like that are why the site existed in the firstplace.

[bitxbitxbitcoin]

I believe it technically started as a "website for shrooms" not a "website for weed." Does that raise or lower the criminality? Because it's actually a lower schedule drug federally...

[sildur]

This is not an isolated incident, it happens every day. The justice system is more worried about putting someone behind bars, no matter if it is guilty or not. That makes death sentences even worse.

[meowface]

I think all drugs should be legal for recreational use, but Ulbricht almost certainly did try to murder several people and believed he succeeded. This evidence was admitted at trial and contributed to the sentence. The crooked agents' actions didn't invalidate those aspects of the fundings: it appears there's very strong evidence he genuinely tried to do that, repeatedly.

So, I have zero sympathy for him. Life is an appropriate sentence. Other DNM owners who don't try to kill people, on the other hand, I definitely tend to sympathize with (though if they allow sale of fentanyl or poisons/weapons, that complicates things).

[cies]

> miscarriage of justice.

Victimless crime in general is miscarriage of justice, imho.