[swiley]

The whole "XYZ material shouldn't exist in the world" thing seems so naive. It's not hard to manufacture most things and people always will find ways to do it. If we want to use legislation to help people then we should do that but using violence and prisons probably isn't helping anyone.

[3pt14159]

I disagree.

It's not hard to find a zero day in software used for parts of our critical infrastructure. It's not hard to create potent drugs from small amounts of precursors. It's not hard to build a gun or a bomb in a machine shop.

But the thing is, most people that have those skills are not malicious. At worst, they're money-motivated and will sell these types of society damaging substances or objects, but with the long arm of the law and a credible threat of jail time most of the people that would try to make a quick buck are dissuaded from doing so, or at least slowed by the resultant paranoia.

I know it's not perfect. I know many illegal drugs should be legal and I know that people outside of the western world smuggle in or transmit these things that damage our society, but that doesn't invalidate our struggle. We cannot live in a lawless society and though I think that it is better to cut the root causes of things like drug abuse, we still need to keep dangerous drugs to a minimum.

[swiley]

>But the thing is, most people that have those skills are not malicious. At worst, they're money-motivated and will sell these types of society damaging substances or objects, but with the long arm of the law and a credible threat of jail time most of the people that would try to make a quick buck are dissuaded from doing so, or at least slowed by the resultant paranoia.

If this were the actually the case and people with those skills weren't malicious and were dissuaded by the law then the only way to obtain those substances would be to manufacture them yourself. As it stands you can find sellers on Instagram so that's clearly wrong.

[JohnBooty]

    It's not hard to manufacture most things and people 
    always will find ways to do it.

Ever hear of a drug addict becoming so desperate that they start manufacturing their own drugs for personal use? Aside from growing pot, which I wouldn't call "manufacturing", not once have I ever heard of this happening. If it's so "not hard", why doesn't this happen?

Manufacturing drugs isn't difficult on the order of refining uranium or something, but it's not trivial. You need knowledge, gear, raw materials that are not all trivial to obtain, and a location where you pull off some kind of small-scale chemical manufacturing operation without getting caught.

    If we want to use legislation to help people then we should 
    do that but using violence and prisons probably isn't 
    helping anyone.

I would certainly agree that we should not criminalize drug users of any sort.

Suppliers and manufacturers of deadly drugs are another story.

    The whole "XYZ material shouldn't exist in the world" thing 
    seems so naive.

What's naive is lumping all recreational drugs together with blanket statements like these.

Recreational drugs run the gamut from nearly harmless (marijuana, etc) to absolutely deadly (heroin, fentanyl, etc). In a just and logical world, they would never even be a part of the same discussion.

At the deadly end of the spectrum, yes, I certainly do feel confident in saying that some drugs have absolutely no place in society. I have seen what they do. I have been to the funerals for friends, loved ones, and family members. There is no safe way to use heroin. Drugs like meth, heroin, and crack destroy lives and towns.

It is the laziest and most naive possible libertarian dream to think that people should be allowed to supply deadlier drugs to people because of one's lasses-faire fever dreams. It's the kind of isolated, privileged fantasy that evaporates quickly when you have to identify your son in a morgue.

[FDSGSG]

>Ever hear of a drug addict becoming so desperate that they start manufacturing their own drugs for personal use? Aside from growing pot, which I wouldn't call "manufacturing", not once have I ever heard of this happening. If it's so "not hard", why doesn't this happen?

Shake and bake meth is hardly uncommon.