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by pydry 2120 days ago
They dropped a concrete block on his car. It wasn't attempted murder it was attempted property damage.

So, yes, they killed him and were rightly imprisoned for manslaughter.

4 comments

“Mostly peaceful” would be a good description?
I guess we can all agree that it wasn’t an attempted murder.
Nah. I think I am pretty ok will calling someone who does this a murderer. That is totally fine in my book to call them that.
The distinction in England+Wales law caused a fair bit of debate in the UK at the time and was tackled in the following case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Hancock

Murder requires intent...
Well, they did intend to drop the concrete block on his car, the block wasn't dropped by accident or through their gross negligence (in which case it would be manslaughter).

Murder does require intent, but it does not necessarily require an intent to kill that person; if you intend to "just" assault a person but they die, that's murder; if you intend to kill someone but kill someone else whom you did not intend to kill, that's murder.

"extreme indifference to human life" (again, intentional) is generally considered murder - e.g. if you'd intentionally burn down your neighbour's house without knowing or caring if anyone's inside, then if someone dies, it's considered murder. And UK, where the incident happened, has the concept of felony-murder where any death (even if accidental) that happens in the process of felony can be considered murder, because the felony that endangered people's lives was intentional.

Here's what CPS says about murder: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-ma...

> Subject to three exceptions (see Voluntary Manslaughter below) the crime of murder is committed, where a person:

> Of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);

> unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);

> any reasonable creature (human being);

> in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;

> under the Queen's Peace (not in war-time);

> with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).

> Well, they did intend to drop the concrete block on his car, the block wasn't dropped by accident or through their gross negligence (in which case it would be manslaughter).

It was manslaughter though

I'm comfortable assuming intent when someone discharges a kinetic weapon at a occupied vehicle. If the car was parked and they assumed it was unoccupied you might have a point.

I wouldn't have any trouble believing there were more attempted murders on the part of the anti-union side, or that this example happened differently than described, but what was described was clearly a (successful) attempt to kill someone.

> discharges a kinetic weapon ...

Is that the same as shooting a gun? ; )

Guns are a specific type of kinetic weapon, yes. So are eg trebuchets or de-oribited asteroids.
For sure :). I understand that. I was gently teasing and pointing out that the language you used obscured (as there were no trebuchets, de orbiting asteroids, etc, involved) rather than clarifies.

“Shooting a gun”, or “shooting guns or beanbag rounds, etc”, or whatever is specific and relevant to the topic clarifies thought and improves our thought. The opposite approach occluded and damages our thought.

And since language is how we discuss politics, we need clear language in order to truthfully and honestly discuss politics.

:-)

To quote Orwell from Politics and the English Language:

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

“ Modern English, especially written English, is full of bad habits which spread by imitation and which can be avoided if one is willing to take the necessary trouble. If one gets rid of these habits one can think more clearly, and to think clearly is a necessary first step toward political regeneration: so that the fight against bad English is not frivolous and is not the exclusive concern of professional writers.”

“ Operators, or verbal false limbs. These save the trouble of picking out appropriate verbs and nouns, and at the same time pad each sentence with extra syllables which give it an appearance of symmetry. Characteristic phrases are: render inoperative, militate against, prove unacceptable, make contact with, be subject to, give rise to, give grounds for, have the effect of, play a leading part (role) in, make itself felt, take effect, exhibit a tendency to, serve the purpose of, etc. etc. The keynote is the elimination of simple verbs. Instead of being a single word, such as break, stop, spoil, mend, kill, a verb becomes a phrase, made up of a noun or adjective tacked on to some general-purposes verb such as prove, serve, form, play, render. In addition, the passive voice is wherever possible used in preference to the active, and noun constructions are used instead of gerunds (by examination of instead of by examining).”

This may be a case of competing definitions. It sounds like you're using a legal definition.
How is dropping a concrete block on someone from 27 feet up not expected to kill them? Miners should have more common sense than that.