[neiman]

How does it make a difference?

First, if an entity want my input and are going to use it, they should be decent enough to pay me for giving it. Why do users need to work for free for Amazon?

Second, is it opt-in? If not, then there's an ethical issue here, even if a manual opt-out option is given (does it?). If there's no opt-out, there's a double ethical issue.

Thirdly, is this data deleted once it's being used for the goals you mentioned, or is it kept, making it a risk both for leaking and for Amazing deciding to put it for a different usage in the future.

[dimitrios1]

You don't. You have 100% freedom to not work for Amazon. Don't buy a kindle. Don't use a kindle.

[neiman]

If I would have known that by buying Kindle I end up working for Amazon, I indeed wouldn't have bought one.

It's deception. Please put on the box a big warning, "THIS DEVICE COLLECTS YOUR DATA", similar to those on cigarette boxes.

[shmel]

Are you genuinely surprised at this point? Pretty much all big tech companies were caught outright lying about user data collection. Why would you assume by default they don't try to get as much as possible? They are all based on ML, of course they do.

A year or two ago Amazon was swearing that humans don't listen to Alexa conversations until we learned they actually do. IIRC Amazon tried to backpedal: "of course they do, it is their job, we meant humans don't listen _for fun_".

At this point just assume the internet connectivity as such a warning.

[charles_f]

> Pretty much all big tech companies were caught outright lying about user data collection.

You can strip the big here.

[neiman]

Of course I'm not surprised, but I refuse to accept this as normal.

[TedDoesntTalk]

But your refusal doesn’t change the reality.

Kinda like refusing to believe that climate change is real does not change the reality.

[neiman]

What? I didn't say I don't recognize the reality. I said I don't accept it as normal, meaning I work trying to change it.

[radicaldreamer]

There’s a plastic bag over the product saying don’t open it if you don’t agree with the terms of service and that it’s required to use the device.

Also, plenty of people just leave the kindle in airplane mode and use third party software like Calibre to manage their libraries.

[falcolas]

FWIW, the website providing this breakdown also collects analytics data without a warning. So, there's that to consider as well.

[jjcon]

It’s called the terms of service?

[jabirali]

Terms of service are written to be understandable by lawyers, not average end-users. At this point, understanding every terms of service, privacy policy, etc. presented by every piece of software, website, etc. encountered by an average user would require them to spend hours per week on it. This is assuming that they even have the language skills necessary to decipher the document (think of non-native English speakers, people without higher education, and so on.)

Creative Commons was on the right track with their human-readable licenses, see e.g. this example [1]. Apple is on the right track with their App Store "nutrition labels" [2]. This is what we need for people to make informed decisions. For physical objects like a Kindle, I believe such "nutrition labels" should ideally be put on the box (physical store) and website (online stores), so the consumer is aware before they go home and turn on the device (this makes it easier to compare the Kindle to a Boox or Nook at the store).

[1]: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/

[2]: https://mashable.com/article/apple-privacy-nutrition-labels-...

[ethbro]

ToS are effectively useless for this purpose.

If the industry moved to a standardized disclosure form (e.g. something like the HUD-1 [1] in real estate sales), people would stop complaining about this.

[1] https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/1.PDF

[oblio]

1. Nobody actually reads Terms of Service (well, governments and some major businesses do, but 99,99% of regular users don't).

2. Nobody reads them because most of the time they are explicitly user hostile, I'm pretty sure they are designed to prevent users from reading them.

[violetgarden]

Yes! Even when I try to read the terms of service, I find them hard to understand. I feel bad because it’s sort of shame on me for agreeing to stuff blindly. User hostile is a good way of putting it.

[danShumway]

Are they printed on the box in a readable form before the customer buys the product?

[neiman]

Very different things.

[2rsf]

Payment is a fair point on Kindles, I get why web sites offers free services in return to commercials (and your data) but I paid for my Kindle and (most of) the content I read.