[pmoriarty]

It's interesting that you single out Switzerland as a jurisdiction that the US can't touch.

It used to be that Switzerland had iron-tight bank secrecy regulations that the US (and the rest of the world) really couldn't breach. Yet over the years the US has managed to force massive changes on Switzerland's financial institutions, and for decades now there's been much more transparency, and Switzerland's banks are not nearly as secret nor as effective at hiding assets as they used to be.

Apart from getting other countries to change their financial regulations to be more in line with what the US wants, the US has also been very successful in doing the same in regards to issues like drug enforcement, human trafficking, child molestation, and many other issues.

So, depending on your threat model and what data you're trying to keep private, I wouldn't count on any jurisdiction ultimately being and remaining safe for your data.

Something else to consider is that once your data is out of your hands, it's easy for whoever has it to make a copy to archive and work on at their leisure. Even if they don't share, sell, compromise, or trade away that data today, that doesn't mean they won't do so at some time in the future when laws, technical capabilities, or incentives change.

[Youden]

I think you're drastically overstating what happened regarding Swiss banking secrecy.

Switzerland agreed to FATCA, which only applies to people subject to US taxes and allows those people to refuse to have their information shared with the IRS, in which case the IRS has to specifically request it.

The "massive changes" you mention essentially consist of banks asking you if you're a US person and then, for the big banks, making you fill out a bunch of paperwork and for the small banks, refusing to open an account for you. If you're not subject to US taxes, there's no effect on you whatsoever.

I think the _much_ more interesting thing, which is unrelated to the US (as it's not a party to the agreement) is the AEOI [0].

Anyhow, Switzerland is still very much a sovereign nation and the fact that it has agreed to give limited financial information to the US, with consent of the account holder, does not change that.

A fun bit of proof: copyright infringement, one of the US's pet peeves, is still very much alive in Switzerland. It's your legal right to make as many copies of something as you want and give them to your friends and family [1].

And ultimately, the US' power over Switzerland is quite limited due to the referendum system. Any change they'd like the government to make has to have the consent of the people. The Swiss are quite protective of their privacy so I don't see the US having any success weakening that.

[0]: https://www.efd.admin.ch/efd/en/home/themen/wirtschaft--waeh...

[1]: https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920251/...

[tgsovlerkhgsel]

I don't know if you realize how absurd this is: imagine if you, as a US citizen, in the US, had to answer whether you are subject to Swiss taxes any time you wanted to open a US bank account.

Also, for stock accounts, you'd be required to fill out a form in German/Italian/French regarding Swiss taxation.

[Youden]

I do realize how absurd it is, the point is that I don't see it as a challenge to Swiss sovereignty.

[smoe]

It wasn't the US alone. The pressure increased from pretty much all the important trade partners in the west and a lot of the bank secrecy breaking a bit had to do with the Swiss banks really really wanting to do business in those countries, preferably without following their laws. But in the end it was the big banks that gave up on the iron-tight secrecy themselves and pushed for deals before the Swiss government did.

I agree that you can't count on jurisdiction alone for your data remaining safe. Neither will a technical solution like encryption. The latter might keep your data safe, but not you and your loved ones if there are not some legal limits what people wanting to access it can do.

[leejo]

> Yet over the years the US has managed to force massive changes on Switzerland's financial institutions, and for decades now there's been much more transparency, and Switzerland's banks are not nearly as secret nor as effective at hiding assets as they used to be.

Eh not really unless you're a US citizen, which is a US problem not a Swiss problem. When I arrived, several years ago, and was opening an account I was asked multiple times If I was (or ever was) a US citizen and had to sign (again multiple times) that I wasn't a US citizen. Many small and even cantonal banks will outright refuse to open accounts for US citizens.