[BTCOG]

This is all information in bad faith. The protocol and all Telegram is open source. Are you a cryptographer? And who "rolled" the Signal protocol, Moxie Marlinspike? Did he not design that himself?

[input_sh]

> ...and all Telegram is open source.

This is demonstrably false. Telegram's apps are open sourced (except Telegram X for some reason), same as Signal's (no exceptions). None of the two offer you their server's code.

> And who "rolled" the Signal protocol, Moxie Marlinspike? Did he not design that himself?

It passed the scrutiny of the best cryptographers out there. This comment provides more info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24237791

And again, this is completely irrelevant because even if Telegram's end-to-end encryption was absolutely the best there is, a) it doesn't work on group chats, and b) it's not enabled by default, only in Secret Chats. The vast majority of Telegram's usage is not end-to-end encrypted at all.

[maqp]

"None of the two offer you their server's code."

Signal server source code:

https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server

"The vast majority of Telegram's usage is not end-to-end encrypted at all."

This. This is the backdoor right here. It was never going to be shady flaw in the implementation. It's SO much easier to put it out there in the open, spread misinformation about Telegram being at the forefront of privacy battle and silence all criticism (my links were shadowbanned on their subreddit), and to attack straw men like people posting example's of Telegram's bad track record. tl;dr: damage control.

[maqp]

The protocol and all Telegram is open source.

The open source Telegram client tells us

1. That E2EE is not enabled by default

2. That E2EE is not available at all for group chats

3. That E2EE is not available at all for desktop clients.

So just. No.

"Are you a cryptographer?"

Here's the world's most famous cryptographer, Bruce Schneier saying don't use Telegram: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/06/comparing_mes...

Here's the world's second most famous cryptographer, Matthew Green saying don't use Telegram https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/72642891296898252...

Now show me the cryptographer who recommends Telegram. You can't. Because there isn't _any_.

"And who "rolled" the Signal protocol, Moxie Marlinspike? Did he not design that himself?"

No, it was co-authored with Trevor Perrin[1] who is a cryptographer.

[1] https://twitter.com/trevp__

Telegram's encryption OTOH was designed by Nikolai Durov who is not a cryptographer, but a geometrician. That's like asking a gynecologist to perform brain surgery, lol.