[avdempsey]

The temporal dimension is just as important as space. Adding a year between eating meat and a plant-based diet also makes the alternatives more appealing.

After being meat and dairy free for awhile my cravings changed. I guess our brains are plastic? I ate (and loved!) meat for 28 years, but today I don't even crave it, and can report I enjoy food just as much as I used to. If being plant-based required will-power, I don't think I'd be able to do it.

I think it's actually easier to go all the way, and avoid meat completely, than it is to cut back. If meat is a regular, if limited, part of your diet the craving never goes away.

[adrianmonk]

> After being meat and dairy free for awhile my cravings changed.

I think this may work for any dietary change that you stick with consistently. I'm not a vegetarian, but I completely revamped my diet several years back, and at first I craved the old foods, but now I crave the new ones.

I'd bet part of it is as simple as being hungry, eating something, and then not feeling hungry anymore. Satiating your hunger is a good feeling, and over time you're going to learn to associate that good feeling with its causes, which are whatever you eat regularly.

[loceng]

I eat high fat, high quality steak and kale - that's all. It's pretty easy. I find it odd that meat is being described as or associated with a craving though. I've never craved plants or other foods.

I'm at 67 hours of a planned 72 hour water fast and I'm not craving food, nor hungry, it's easy once you get past the first day or two to continue for 5-10+ days so long as supplementing for electrolytes.

I'm curious what else you changed in your diet or eating behaviours when you stopped eating meat? Did you reduce your sugar and carbohydrates? The quality (processed or not, organic or not) and type of meat you eat as well - as people can have sensitivities and discomfort by eating specific types of meat; chicken and duck bother me some, pork bothers me more, beef is fine.

[cik2e]

Did you have any trouble with a longer fast on your first attempt? I do intermittent fasting and have gotten to 24 bracketed by evening meals. I can’t seem to fall asleep when I am hungry but find it very easy to skip breakfast and lunch. It’s true for me that after like 12 hours the hunger goes away and it becomes easy to go past the 16 hours that’s prescribed for IF. But the problem is that I start to get jittery from the adrenaline which is what ultimately gets me to eat in the evening even if I’ve done for 20 hours leading into that and don’t actually feel hungry.

Any tips from others who have the same issue around hunger impeding sleep would be appreciated.

[marcyb5st]

Hey, I have been doing OMAD since January. I usually eat around noon +-1h depending on meetings.

I faced the same issues and for me what really helped is drinking a lot of Camomille (0.5L) sweetened with sugar alcohols. I guess it does two things. Camomille has some calming effects, especially when warm. This immediately gets my stomach rumblings to stop. Secondly, the sugar alcohols might trick your brain in releasing some dopamine since it has a sweet taste (not sure, that's my theory). This helps me soldier through the adrenaline and hunger spikes.

[loceng]

I'll share what I know and ask what I can.

My longest fast was 10 days. The first time I fasted what I discovered was it was my mind telling me I was hungry, not my body. There's a pizza chain where I live called Pizza Pizza, bright orange background with white lettering. It was a 3 day fast and on the second day as I was walking that big bright sign around dinner popped up into my head, and I was like "Oh, I'll have pizza tonight for dinner." And then I realized I wasn't hungry. It taught me that we develop mental triggers, reminders, for when to eat - and that's pretty much why advertising works to manipulate us, and it does it very well; many if not most people are driven by their ego mind constantly being on and are disconnected from feeling their body properly - signals like hunger, etc. We get trained young to eat foods that don't make us feel well, and the mind then over time pulls our attention and connection to our body away from us. You may have some of this ego mind thought patterns to clear, that's telling you very strongly that you need to eat "or else you'll die" - instead of being able to relax and trust that (unless you're underweight) that your body will simply switch to energy in your fat reserves.

When fasting what happens really depends on what your diet is beforehand. If it's ketogenic then you're not also having to deal with the transition to your brain burning ketones. What's your normal diet, and do you take electrolyte supplement? Perhaps too personal however I'm curious if you take any neurotransmitter altering medications that may be preventing your brain from shifting, transitioning as easily? Feel free to email me instead [e-mail] or just not answer that but it potentially is a factor.

It's quite common for people's sleep to get greatly disrupted for at least the first few nights which is for a few reasons. It may be disconcerting to have sleep disrupted, with potentially very vivid dreams, and transitioning into a different sleep schedule that you're not used to. One reason is inflammation level is going down in your brain, and arguably it's functioning better - inflammation has a depressant effect, so when there's a numbing or "calming" of processes.

The difficulty you mention is more likely related to withdrawal/irritability from foods you're dependant on/addicted to than the increase in adrenaline and norepinephrine that your body produces when fasting - which will make your mind faster and sharper; makes sense for this to have evolved to be a thing so if you don't have access to food and need to have a sharp mind for hunting, etc. Similarly you burn more calories when fasting than you'd burn if eating food, once again - needing more energy so you can have more energy to find your next food supply. This increased drive could make withdrawal more irritating as well.

Do you eat wheat, dairy, soy, sugars and/or carbohydrates? Wheat for some people literal acts like an opiate, so you're literally going through withdrawal. The rest of the foods I mention are highly inflammatory, and through that depressant effect people are self-medicating to "calm" or suppress their nervous system. It's possible that there's underlying emotion, unhealed/unprocessed trauma, that wants to process but perhaps you don't have the insight or skill developed yet - or it's built up past a point you can tolerate processing it, and so using food as a suppressant; this is why people consider things like MDMA and Ayahuasca ceremonies as medicines because it helps a person more easily access and process deeply suppressed emotions and trauma that was too strong to process otherwise at the time it occurred, or over time perhaps different stresses built up while ego mind suppressed/repressed and/or found different healthy or unhealthy coping mechanisms - alcohol, tobacco, certain foods, etc.

Have you tried just staying up and distracting yourself? You'll eventually fall asleep once tired. Or is it that you get too agitated and go to food and that instantly comforts you?

Here's a ~30 mins video by Dr. Jason Fung that may give you some more insights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk

I can potentially offer more tips and tricks once I know what your regular diet consists of.

Sorry for the delay in commenting, dang at some point rate limited how often I can post..

[MiguelHudnandez]

"Committing 100% is easier than committing 98%."

Paraphrased from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj-91dMvQQo

[tashoecraft]

I’ve found the opposite. I don’t buy meat or dairy groceries so the high majority of my meals are vegan, but if I’m out at a place that doesn’t have a vegan option I’m fine ordering a meat or vegetarian option.

I think going majority meat and dairy less without committing 100% would make a much bigger effect in aggregate. We don’t need everyone becoming vegan, actually we can’t even support that. But if having meat and dairy at every single meal wasn’t a requirement, then we’d make a lot of change.

Vegetarians and vegans who have meat/dairy rarely shouldn’t be shunned or considered “failed”.

[archielc]

I can relate to your experience on switching to plant-based diet.

[sitkack]

I still eat meat, but I stopped eating any sort of pork. I no longer crave it and it tastes bad, I no longer enjoy it.

It is amazing how fleeting our tastes are.

[fortran77]

Another problem is reducing the amount of food people eat:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/global-shift-obes...

[mjcohen]

Right now, they are not.