[Barrin92]

> The people are voting with dollars saying Amazon is doing the right thing when they buy from Amazon. That's the reality.

And how is that justification? If people buy cheap stuff made from prison or child labour does that justify the practise? It just tells us that people by and large are indifferent to the conditions under which their goods are produced, it's not a justification for it.

That people don't care about Amazon labour conditions doesn't tell us that Amazon is doing the 'right thing', it tells us that people don't care about worker rights.

That's what laws and governments exist for. People also never cared that their palm oil consumption endangers biodiversity and destroys the rainforest, because they don't suffer from it.

[adamsea]

I'd go even further and say simply that it tells us that human behavior is complicated.

Someone is perfectly capable about caring about workers rights and ordering from Amazon at the same time. What if you forgot to get a birthday present and need next day delivery? Amazon's kind of the only game in town, and that's an understandable compromise lots of people might make.

I think it's more about the lack of alternatives to Amazon (they are both great at customer service and at snuffing out competition) and the collective action problem than anything else. And I agree that's part of why laws and governments exist : ).

[NoOneNew]

Dont forget to get a present? I mean, the world has existed great for a long time prior to Amazon's existence. Now everyone acts like Prime is an essential service to life itself. It's pretty pathetic. Like, really pathetic. Your own failure of planning isn't an excuse to break your own ideals, but then turn around to act pious to that ideal. In essence, you then dont actually stand or believe in it, you just do it, when convenient for virtue signaling and cheap warm/fuzzies.

[adamsea]

You're absolutely right. It's not an excuse, and the example/hypothetical I shared would be a violation of my ideals.

But that's my point. We're flawed. Which isn't an excuse. It's like, when the experts talk about how to change habits, they say the best way to do it is to change your environment. Because of the powerful influence our environment has upon us.

And most models of change for behaviors like smoking or weight loss (and it's becoming increasing clear that computers/screens/apps/the internet share the addictive qualities of those behaviors) incorporate relapse as one step of a change process.

It's an old book and a simple one, but as far as I know their research on how people successfully change behavior still holds up: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/46680.Changing_for_Good

Most studies show, I think, that positive motivation is a better tool than shaming/blaming/judging, in most situations.

[NoOneNew]

Justify the practice? I'm the one arguing that Amazon is too large and we need better labor laws to protect workers, but the public isn't helping the matter by crying, then buying stuff on Amazon.

Yes laws exist for a reason, but I dont need a law to tell me stealing and murder is bad. While that's an extreme example, it's to prove that people need to own up to their own decision making if they want to complain. You shouldn't need your mommy around to tell you to do the right thing or who to associate with. Be an adult and be proactive.

[kjeetgill]

> Yes laws exist for a reason, but I dont need a law to tell me stealing and murder is bad.

What? Those two concerns are practically the reason laws were invented. Government is absolutely about coordinated action derived from the will of people on behalf of the people. Your can't solve everything with boycotts. "Complaining" as you put it is literally the voice of people: advocacy for both government action and rallying people's concerns.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with not "being and adult".