[theseadroid]

Here's one of the most important things I can think of that's pushing me back to China more and more each day:

I live in one of the major NA cities and I dont feel safe walking outside after dark (after 8pm).

I have a friend got robbed on knifepoint around 11pm this past March. The case hasn't been closed. Numerous friends' homes got broke in and stuff stolen and cases are all cold.

And I was almost hit by a left turning car on a quite street. The car sped away without checking if i'm ok.

Yes I miss getting my privacy striped away by all the CCTV cameras and feeling safe. I miss all the speed cameras and red light cameras. All the cameras that the existence of them having the deterrent effect for thieft and robberies and traffic violations.

I'm aware of the quote: Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Because I've been telling that to my friends before I left China and live in NA. But now I think Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs more often than that. (https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html#:~:text=Maslow'...)

Culturally I'm just used to a higher level of safety I guess. Japan, Singapore, Taiwan other than PRC are like that too. So it's more of an Asian thing.

And that heirarchy actually explain a lot why Chinese seems to be not on the same frequency with westerners on human right issues. Because I guess Chinese are still at a lower level of that hierarchy right now.

[everettp]

If your only examples are North America and China, it may feel like there is a direct tradeoff between safety and privacy. But that would be a false analysis: most Western nations have far lower rates of violent crime than the United States, without the need for omnipresent surveillance.

[theseadroid]

maybe. I've lived in Europe for a bit and it's a bit better but not to the point I feel safe everywhere during the night in cities(but at least I dont live in fear of getting hit by cars that much). And other than China I've mentioned I feel safe during night in Japan, Taiwan, or Singapore. Again I'm not sourcing any data here because it's just my personal experience of whether I'd feel safe in cities during night.

[zbrozek]

I'm often curious what makes someone feel safe or not. I've never felt unsafe wandering around (including in lots of "sketchy" places), but I suspect a lot of that is an accident of my genetics. I just don't look like an easy person to victimize.

[devdas]

From my perspective, a lot of that is simply busy areas. Areas with a lot of pepole moving around are safer in cities than areas without a lot of people.

In Asian cities, there is plenty of nightlife on the streets. In Europe, places outside the city centre seem to shut down after dinner.

[hakka-nyu-su]

The sense of social solidarity versus atomization plays a part, for me. Do I feel like my neighbors will look out for me or do I feel this is a "no snitching, mind your own business" culture?

[stolsvik]

Check out Scandinavia/Nordics..

[rumanator]

> Yes I miss getting my privacy striped away by all the CCTV cameras and feeling safe.

I'm sorry to break it to you but that feeling is nothing more than a feeling. There is no assurance of safety from CCTV camera coverage. There is only the assurance that the ruling regime is spying on you. Case in point: I personally know of a case where a popular restaurant was robbed at gunpoint in a city area that was extensively covered by a network of CCTV cameras, and still the robbery was never solved.

And the robbery looked like an internal job.

So no, CCTV coverage does not mean safety. If it was, London would be crime-free, and it's one of Europe's capitals with he highest crime rate.

[pmontra]

I didn't notice any difference in perceived safety. I routinely walk late in the night, even past midnight, but I live in Europe. North America might be different. I don't have any recent direct experience there. SF and NYC were ok about 20 years ago. Lot of people walking around in the night.

[tekknik]

SF off of Market St at night is mostly overtaken by various night dwellers now. Certain areas and surrounding areas around Market you do not want to walk alone at night, or even during the day for some streets. However is too be expected when law abiding citizens are punished for defending, or trying to defend, themselves. People robbing others in this country are called the victim. Those attempting to reduce crime by carrying concealed are also punished, especially in California. The problem with the US is mostly political with one side wanting defense and the other anarchy.

[devdas]

The gun toting people are far more dangerous than the average night dweller.

[tekknik]

You are misinformed. When people carry concealed crime numbers drop because criminals are also scared to die and only want easy targets. And you won’t see the gun if they’re carrying concealed so the class of people you’re talking about, open carrying and brandishing, are not the same people concealed carrying.

[pmontra]

Maybe, but apparently murder numbers grow. This is the first example of Europe vs USA murder rates I was able to google

https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/7x9eaw/murder_rate_...

Are all of them criminals murdered in self defense? I would be surprised. And if that was the case, then some crime was going on.

[tekknik]

Well you can’t get a concealed carry permit in Europe, and you cant compare two countries like this, where one has extreme gun control and the other doesn’t and then further go on to compare crime rates. This doesn’t even fit into the proper definition of experiment, where’s the control?