[blisseyGo]

What's really happening is that these rioters (not the protestors) are watched trying to instigate violence at the protests and when they leave the area, they get arrested. This is because the local government has been absolutely useless at doing their job at stopping the rioting.

Start at 9:30 timestamp:

https://youtu.be/3ptD6koTknw?t=570

People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests.

https://youtu.be/ha-7SETmJD4

Also they are not unidentified. They have Police on their chest.

There's also a theory (can't confirm this) that these are undercover operatives being extracted as they have been infiltrated Antifa.

[gruez]

>People sharing videos of this share either selectively edited videos without context OR they only share the ending part where they are arrested and not the part where they were instigating violence in the peaceful protests.

I'm not sure the video that you've linked is any better. It's basically someone dismissing it saying they were bad people who deserved it. It adds zero information.

[blisseyGo]

Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows:

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618

[darksaints]

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2020/06/19/pol...

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/17/police-targeting-street-...

If you are protesting the police, you should have every possible form of armour on that you have access to, even if you are protesting peacefully.

[gruez]

If we're going to continue the chain of speculation without providing additional evidence...

> the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests?

Same reason why people wear helmets when riding a bike: even if they're not intending on smashing their head, accidents happen, so it's better to be protected. Protests do occasionally turn violent, so that's not too unreasonable. Also keep in mind there are protesters that open carry assault rifles, so in comparison a helmet us relatively tame.

>That's an attachment to break car windows:

It looks like a black stick to me? What's it supposed to be?

[blisseyGo]

You are being dishonest on purpose if you think wearing a helmet and dressed up as Antifa is peaceful protesting.

[fredophile]

What does Antifa wear? How do you feel about people that open carry at protests?

[fredophile]

Maybe he's worried the peaceful protest will get less peaceful. There could be agitators sneaking into the crowd to stir things up. Counter protests by people with firearms. Cops shooting protesters with rubber bullets. Those all seem like plausible scenarios to me.

I couldn't identify what he had on his left side from that video. How did you come to the conclusion it was meant to break windows?

[mindslight]

Uh, the thugs doing the kidnapping also have helmets on so that indicates nothing whatsoever. And the only "thing" I can see looks like a regular carabiner.

[blisseyGo]

thugs? They have "POLICE" on their chest.

[mindslight]

So can anybody with two minutes and a clothes iron. Actual police announce themselves, state their intentions, follow deliberate procedures, create public reports, answer to bystanders, and generally work to uphold law and order with everybody else. Regardless of how they got the costumes, the aggressors in that video are violent criminals.

[blisseyGo]

They don't just have police badges, they also have patches on their shoulders which is for DHS. This was reported couple days ago that DHS will be coming in to stop the rioting:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

Media's claim that they are "unidentified" is simply false.

[Thorrez]

A number of peaceful protesters have been injured by rubber bullets, so it makes sense to wear a helmet.

[Boxbot]

there's a kid in texas who got a beanbag round embedded in his skull so i'd say helmets are probably a good idea when you've got cops firing less-lethal munitions into crowds

[uncletammy]

There have been three or four of them in total. I believe this is the one you're talking about though.

https://www.kut.org/post/chief-manley-says-black-man-critica...

[dfraser992]

And that's the video were the whole incident seems suspicious - see my comment. An undercover op would logically have equipment for stirring up trouble / doing damage if part of his remit was to be a "fifth columnist". Yeah, that is how much I trust American authorities in general, especially the right wing nutjobs taking over now.

[xxpor]

Even if I agree with your assessment, none of this excuses using unmarked vehicles, unmarked uniforms and not explaining themselves.

[mtgp1000]

At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights.

This is a literally subversive movement. I'm not exaggerating or choosing a side. Watch the livestreams yourself - these people explicitly seek to subvert, dismantle, and replace modern "power structures" (intentionally left vague).

Whether you agree with what these people think they're fighting for, the system has safeguards against such insurrection.

[xxpor]

Give me a break. These aren't the Bolsheviks fighting the white army.

The dude in the video was never told where he was or why he was arrested. He didn't know he was in the federal courthouse until after he was released.

These guys don't even have badges ffs. If someone shot these guys, I don't see how that wouldn't be considered self-defense.

Let's see what DHS is complaining about:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks. Real insurrection. Raise the army. Prepare the nukes.

[blisseyGo]

> A lot of broken windows, graffiti and fireworks.

Those are federal property and feds have full rights to do this. Also a lot of people who are being arrested are from another state. That's been the case for at least 45 days now. There's a point where the feds have to step in since the local people in that area are being terrorized. I have friends in that area and they are all planing to move out of the city because the Mayor, DA and Governor have been useless for a long time.

[WalterGR]

I have friends in that area who feel perfectly safe and think the mayor, DA, and governor are doing fine. Other fiends of mine are moving there.

[gruez]

>At some point people become enough of a liability that we collectively as a society have authorized the restriction of their rights.

So tyranny of the majority is fine? I'm sure you can apply the same justification to what's happening in Xinjiang. Also, where's this "authorization" stemming from? Did we explicitly authorize it? Or was it implied by our inaction?

[mtgp1000]

>So tyranny of the majority is fine

Perhaps it is preferable to tyranny by the minority.

>authorization" stemming from? Did we explicitly authorize it? Or was it implied by our inaction?

Did you authorize the taxes you pay, or where they go? Isn't this the so called social contract?

And please, my family fled true tyranny, I assure you nothing the US is doing is quite comperable to the CCP. Westerners don't know tyranny. They've grown so comfortable that they can take to the streets for weeks and complain about the very government that supports them.

Try doing that in the USSR or any Chines state outside of Hong Kong or Taiwan.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

We have safeguards in place already that don’t require law enforcement kidnapping people.

[fzeroracer]

None of what you said matters and here's why.

It doesn't matter who they're arresting and for what reason. They should announce who they are, using marked vehicles and properly arrest them if they have actually committed a crime.

Because otherwise, what's stopping someone from dressing up in military garb and straight up abducting someone? How do you know they're even part of the federal law enforcement and not actually someone taking advantage of the situation to commit crimes as well?

[MengerSponge]

There wasn't much time between channers "joking" about driving into protest crowds and Heather Heyer's murder. These auth-right goons have been "joking" about dropping people out of helicopters for years.

[dfraser992]

Exactly. If the "authorities" had any integrity, they'd be following the "process" and that would give them at least a fig leaf of legitimacy. Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but looking at these growing comments, I think there is a brigade going on to influence the discussion.

[growlix]

Yup. Post got flagged too. I assume because it's "political", but in my experience HN is very interested in civil liberties.

[ModernMech]

Fta: “interviews conducted by OPB show officers are also detaining people on Portland streets who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity.

Demonstrators like O’Shea and Pettibone said they think they were targeted by federal officers for simply wearing black clothing in the area of the demonstration.“

[blisseyGo]

> who aren’t near federal property, nor is it clear that all of the people being arrested have engaged in criminal activity

That's misleading. They are being recorded while they are being violent within the peaceful protests. They are being arrested when they leave because Feds don't want to disrupt the peaceful protests - so they arrest them when they leave the area. I have watched a few videos of this happening and all of them have the person in not just all black but also with a helmet, tools to break windows and baseball bats.

Here's one example where the dude who got arrested has a helmet on. Why's that needed in peaceful protests? Also note the thing he has on his left side. That's an attachment to break car windows:

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1283452585945583618

[d3nj4l]

How do you know the videos you've watched (and you've only posted one) are representative of every arrest? The OPB has interviewed protestors to find out, and they're a reputable, local news organisation. Why should anybody take your word for it over theirs?

[fredophile]

Do you have links to those videos? The link you provided doesn't show any indication that the person being detained committed a crime.

[jwilber]

You say, “what’s really happening” and then follow up with generalizing all local governments as the same and all protestors as rioters, so I’ll assume your post isn’t very sincere.

But I’d like a sincere response: What difference does it make what they did if they were apprehended by unidentifiable officers? That’s the topic at hand - the fact that police are apprehending people in ways that are not identifiably different from kidnappings.

[blisseyGo]

> all protestors as rioters

That's not what I meant when I said:

rioters (not the protestors)

I meant to say that a few violent people are sneaking into the protestors. By "not the protestors", I meant "I am not referring to the protestors".

By local government, I meant the mayor, the governor and the DA. Portland, Chicago has been this way for a long time.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

You still haven’t responded to the strongest part of the argument here:

I’m what ways do you believe any of this justifies kidnapping people?

[blisseyGo]

Kidnapping? Really?

The officers have POLICE on their chest in big letters. People getting arrested have helmets, bats and window breaking tools on. They aren't "protestors". They are preventing peaceful protestors.

Also there's some claims of some of them being undercover agents who have infiltrated Antifa though I am not sure if that can be confirmed.

[jwilber]

You claim, “People getting arrested have helmets...” and that, “They aren’t protestors.” - here’s a video of a peaceful protestor getting taken in an unmarked vehicle [0]. Sadly, plenty more exist of similar conduct.

But two responses later and you’ve still ignored the question: what difference does it make what they’ve done - why defend unmarked police? I’ve taken the time to show evidence that it’s occurred, it’d be nice if you reciprocated some effort.

[0]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sandiegouniontribune.com/ne...

[blisseyGo]

They don't just have police badges, they also have patches on their shoulders which is for DHS. This was reported couple days ago that DHS will be coming in to stop the rioting:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

Media's claim that they are "unidentified" is simply false.

[TheSpiceIsLife]

I can get my friend who owns a fabric printer to print “POLICE” on to every piece of clothing I own.

Does that make me identifiably a law enforcement officer?

[blisseyGo]

They don't just have police badges, they also have patches on their shoulders which is for DHS. This was reported couple days ago that DHS will be coming in to stop the rioting:

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/16/acting-secretary-wolf-co...

Media's claim that they are "unidentified" is simply false.