[danans]

Here's an article that gets into the differences between the Vedic hymns and the later material that grew around them (in section 2):

https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/vedol

In particular:

”Over time a body of dependent and scholastic material grew up around the poems, known loosely as 'the Veda'. Perhaps around 1000 BC (all dating in prehistoric India is only approximate), editors gathered the ancient poems together and arranged them, together with some more modern material, into ten books according to rules that were largely artificial"

In terms of subject matter, I would cite the texts themselves. The bulk of the original Vedas (meaning the Samhitas proper), though exquisite in language, poetry and description, are remarkably concrete and earthly compared to the subject matter of the Upanishads, which instead are concerned with esoteric subjects like dualism and non-dualism, and the relationship of that to individual identity and a universal consciousness. The Vedic Samhita's subject matter predominantly concerns propitiation of deified forces of nature to aid with everyday survival concerns, like food, kinship practices, and inter-tribal conflicts.

The Upanishads clearly represent the reflections of an elite of a far more "advanced" stage of society than the Samhitas.

[ravoori]

Indeed. Many Upanishads are, in spirit, opposed to the old Vedas, and some are outright critical of the ritualism that forms the core of the Vedas.

[jelliclesfarm]

No, they are not. Upanishads are the later chapters of the Vedas. There are four vedas and ten principal upanishads.

Hindu philosophy aims to be accessible and useful to everyone. In that, Upanishads offer a way for people who are unable to follow Vedic standards.

An alternative is not opposition. It’s available choice. Upanishads are not against the Vedas. They just form the latter portions of Vedas.

Eg: consider chicken eaters. Veganism is an alternative dietary choice. Veganism existed before it was considered an ‘opposition’ to consuming meat. They are all part of ‘food’ and ‘eating’. Some vegans decided that it’s position against meat eating, but that’s not it’s origin. It’s a choice And a latter interpretation that it’s opposed to meat eating. But it doesn’t mean that veganism emerged due to an opposition to meat eating to compete with it.

[danans]

> Upanishads are the later chapters of the Vedas.

They are not a single coherent work of literature. They likely have dozens of authors and were composed over the span of over 1500 years. You can only describe them as "chapters" in the sense of "chapters of history", but not like "chapters" of a novel or series.

In that sense they are like the Torah and the New Testament of the Bible, which are also not books in the modern sense.

[jelliclesfarm]

Right then. But that doesn’t have anything to do with what I said.

And no, they are not ‘like the Torah’ or New Testament.

[danans]

> But that doesn’t have anything to do with what I said.

My comment was narrowly addressing the use of the term "chapters" as used in literature being applied to the texts under discussion.

I made no comment about the spiritual functional claims you made about Hinduism.

> And no, they are not ‘like the Torah’ or New Testament

Yes they are like the Torah in the New Testament in that they are texts that developed over thousands of years predominantly in the ancient period, and only later were canonized. This is a relatively uncontroversial comparison between the historical development of ancient religious texts.

I made no claim about the similarity of their content, if that's what you are taking issue with.

[jelliclesfarm]

Again. What is the relevance?

[jelliclesfarm]

Are you claiming that ‘linguistic analysis’ by non Indians/Hindus at the university of Texas supersedes knowledge that was orally transmitted for aeons before linguistics as a term was even coined?

[danans]

Plenty of Indians/Hindus conduct the same sort of linguistic analysis, beginning with a guy called Panini who lived around 800 BC. In any case, the nuance and depth of the arguments in the University of Texas article far supercedes the a priori (and apparently religiously nationalist) statements you are making here.

Historical linguistics is an evidence-based field of study that many Indian scholars also actively participate in, wherein they also analyze non Indian languages.

[jelliclesfarm]

Where did you find ‘religiously nationalist’ statements?

I don’t understand why this has to become rude and hostile now. I don’t believe I have anything more to say to you.