[Balgair]

Most relevant part:

"Active students currently in the United States enrolled in such programs must depart the country or take other measures, such as transferring to a school with in-person instruction to remain in lawful status. If not, they may face immigration consequences including, but not limited to, the initiation of removal proceedings."

I wonder if the Harvard decision today will be modified in response to this. I imagine their international students, especially in graduate studies, must be highly impacted.

[chanmad29]

Probably international students will now attend in person classes and others will be fully remote. Weird to even think that such drastic changes are all happening during a pandemic.

[golem14]

Agree. I wonder what is the rationale for all this. Other than plain old xenophobia.

Will this reduce pandemic ? No, it will incentivize colleges to offer in-person classes promoting COVID.

Will this reduce students on non-immigration visas ? Not sure it does (students might find in-person classes somewhere). Some students might just say 'fuck it' and study elsewhere. Maybe that's good for them.

Will this reduce unemployment? Maybe. But I'm doubtful. Most F1 students are barred from working off campus other than internships, and I doubt on-campus work and internships make a dent in unemployment.

[cm2187]

Plain old xenophobia? How about double digit unemployment rate? We can debate the means. But I can understand why Trump would want to cut down on immigration.

Now a good question is whether there will be unemployment among highly educated people with STEM degrees, who were in hot demand only a few weeks ago, and if not this is counterproductive. But every economic indicator seems to point at a major recession (beyond a technical recession during the lockdown). I would assume everyone will be impacted.

[esalman]

You may not know this, but graduate research assistants make less than what many Americans get in unemployment benefits. You are basically getting cutting-edge research work done by non-immigrants for that money. Do you think it is more beneficial for your country to pay a US citizen for doing nothing?

I am a GRA and I work on translational research in neuroimaging and data science. With my career prospects dwindling, I'm considering leaving US if the president gets reelected.

[sukilot]

Unemployment payments are temporary, not 4 years.

[esalman]

Yes, once you get employed you keep making even more.

[umanwizard]

Students on F1 visas are not immigrants, and in general can’t stay after their studies are over (with a limited-time exception via OPT status), unless they get a different type of visa.

[cm2187]

All my friends who emigrated to the US did so from an F1 visa (followed by a work visa sometime during their first year of employment). Of course it is a source of immigration.

[golem14]

+1. I believe a lot of (if not most) people come to the US not only for the education system, but to have a good chance of getting the green card and eventually citizenship.

I don't think that's bad for any party - the US gets access to very smart and enterprising young people (and can grow the edu market), and those people get access to the US.

Making studying and converting F1=H1b->green card process harder is going to have significant drawbacks, such as

* shrinking edu market will itself negatively affect the economy. * Now that FAANG etc have seen that work-from-home can really work out, I expect ever more hiring outside of the US in the future. That doesn't mean that jobs will be opening up in the US. * Harder to find qualified people in the US. [Remaining US workers in STEM can anticipate ever higher wages?]

These drawbacks will take some time to materialize, so it's possible to use this argument (less immigration == more work) during campaigning and deal with the fallout later (or pawn it off to the democrats. Or silently walk back the rules after the election).

Maybe one good thing to come out of this change would be the need to press for domestic STEM education more and earlier.

[belltaco]

>How about double digit unemployment rate?

How many jobs are going to be lost at universities because of this?

[throwgeorge]

what exactly do students on F and M visas have to do with employment? they can't work to begin with.

[novok]

International students attend classes in separate rooms, looking at live video feed.

[nick_kline]

What a mess. There will be schools that have confusing plans, ICE won't quite get that student A is in program B that followed plan C and now they switched to D so something something. Just another piece of terror for all those students to deal with, worrying about immigration confusion.

[iandanforth]

The students may not have that choice. Professors are equally worried about their health and that of their students and are trying hard not to be in classrooms.

[nick_kline]

There's no perfect solution and many conflicting needs.

1. The health needs of students and professors, some part of them are vulnerable, plus the normal health considerations of covid-19

2. The learning needs of students, plenty may struggle to succeed in an entirely online world. It might be required by reality, but there will be new difficulties for people.

3. Financial needs of the school - they still have to pay for classrooms, office space, dorms, the campus, even if they aren't using it right then

4. Financial needs of the student - they might have financial aid from the school or other sources, how does it apply when the school is remote or unclear, what if things change, what do you pay, what does your scholarship cover?

5. And now immigration clarity. That student might need to be in the us for other reasons - if it's grad school, your relationship with your advisor used to be crucial. Now you'll never have a chance to see them in person. No one wants to be terrified of being deported for violating a rule or the govt confused about their status. The school might close down with little notice, what happens to that person who can't afford to fly back overseas?