I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.
Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes.
AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries.
Software Engineers have failed to unite like this, so the MS+FAANGs and consulting companies have lobbied for free flow of cheap labor under the guise of innovation. There are no board certifications, no licensing exams, and no restrictions on supply. This is why software salaries have been artificially suppressed for two decades.
> Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes.
Actually, this is a great example. By restricting medical professionals, medical wages went high. Great for them!
But for the rest of America, this SUCKS. Medical expenses are through the roof, care cannot be had without selling all your money and often, specialist shortages mean appointments can be had only 3 months later. The lack of liquidity of healthcare professionals has made American healthcare the WORST in the developed world.
And this is in cities. Healthcare in rural America is pathetic.
Thanks for bringing to the fore how America has forever destroyed lives for the rest by trying to advantage the few.
Oddly, many of those immigrant healthcare professionals who put in the time to complete residency, get certified and take up jobs in under-served rural areas are on H1B visas.
The AMA doesn't institute caps though they may have lobbied for one in the past (which I kind of doubt) - the Federal Government has the cap via the GME program at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. Residents are expensive to host and Medicare pays something like $10B/year to train new physicians. Congress could increase that amount tomorrow if they felt like it.
Medical professions are physically constrained, easier to lobby and limit supply.
Software development is not as physically constrained, any moves to restrict supply will automatically lead to offshoring similar to manufacturing.
Licensing does not limit offshoring. Accounting is the best example of this. There are many licensed CFAs in India and Philippines doing outsourced accounting work.
Wait you were ecstatic because it would supposedly reduce competition. It’s been pointed out to you that it won’t, but you’re fine with it because... for some other reason? What is it, then?
Any benefit you have will be short term. In the longer term software projects will move to countries where the talent pool is.
A lot of companies are hiring in Vancouver, Canada for example [1]. If you are a software engineer you want the software industry to grow where you live. Restricting immigration is not how you do that!
> I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.
Factory workers in 80s and 90s said the same thing. All it did was price American factory workers out of the labor pool completely, moving jobs elsewhere.
American greed and I-got-mine-fuck-you attitude is exactly why US will not remain a global superpower country anymore.
Regular Americans have very little interest in the rest of the world and derive very little ego from that global role. Americans are nearly universally mocked for that lack of interest. The notion they derive much ego from something they pay so little attention to and have so little interest in, is obviously false. Regular Americans are largely indifferent to the rest of the world.
Trump got elected in part on a platform of ending the globalist war machine and reducing the superpower footprint (and the machine has been fighting him on that every step of the way, see: Bolton's new book, where he says the craziest thing Trump did was not attack Iran). Americans overwhelmingly want that reduction. He's going to be the first President since Jimmy Carter four decades prior, to not get the US into a new war. There were only a few aspects of Trump's campaign that were widely popular, one of which was stepping back from being the world's everywhere superpower. Why would Americans want that if their ego is so tied up in it? Because it's not. The US economy is what makes it powerful (going all the way back to the Civil War era), not going around the world playing superpower. Regular Americans are focused on their own lives, making ends meet, not worrying about Libya-Egypt-Turkey-Syria-Russia.
Americans are very clearly sick of policing the world and how much it costs; they're sick of the cost of being spread around the world and involved in every conflict.
Lol. You don't want to be a superpower but simultaneously also want rising stock markets and global influence.
Before you make the next comment, please check out UK stock indices and Japanese stock indices. Make sure you are ok with the inflated prices they have to pay.
If your job can be done remotely, you will likely face more competition, not less. Restricting the H1-B will only lead to companies following the talent back to their countries with lower costs of living.
Moreover, the current restriction has barely any bite. It only restricts workers who are not in the US from getting a visa until December 2020.
I can understand why you’d feel that was as an individual, but as an American, for my children’s sake, I want the top 5% of every economy to keep immigrating here. That gives the US an incredible advantage in terms of innovation and growth, and I believe that rising tide really does lift us all.
There are structural inequality issues and problems with upward mobility in the US which we urgently need to work on, but those problems are not caused by high skilled immigration, and economic stagnation would just make them worse. Telling the smartest people in the world that America doesn’t want them coming here any more (which is a side-effect of how the Trump administration has handled immigration issues so far, whether or not the intent), makes them a lot less likely to try and come here, and robs our future of the many incredible contributions those people would make in our communities.
I understand the economic fear that many in the US feel. I spent years unemployed and then underemployed after 2007-2008, and it was brutal. But I fear the US turning it’s back on it’s own history as a nation of immigrants, and it’s role as the aspirational “best place in the world” for the ambitious to come live and work, leaves us even poorer.
This policy change will have a far-reaching impact on immigrants' lives, but it will also have an impact on the lives of non-immigrants. In light of that, you cannot reasonably argue that non-immigrants (or immigrant citizens) should be silent about H1Bs.
Moreover, an individual can collaborate constructively with immigrant coworkers on a personal level, while also advocating politically for a more restrictive immigration system.
There is nothing unethical about that. The role of government is to protect the natural rights and interests of its own constituents.
How is it in the collective interests of Americans to block highly educated and productive people from taking jobs in the US? The economy is not a zero-sum game. The administration still lets in temporary agricultural workers - who work for incredibly low wages that very much undercut jobs for Americans - and yet keeps out people who work in fields where there is a shortage of qualified workers and who earn relatively high incomes?
Educated immigrants grow the US economy and increate the total employment of the country in the long run. That's who is being kept out here.
This isn't an action that's being taken to help fix issues with the H1B visa system. It's simply to stop immigration to the US.
I'm saying we shouldn't hurl epithets at people for commenting on political concerns that affect them, just because we don't like their point of view. There's a difference between "anti-immigrant" and "anti-H1B."
Look up the definition of "bigotry." People on both sides of the issue should be tolerant of reasonable commentary from the other side.
Yes, you did. You have now edited your comment to remove the part where you expressed your shock at seeing so many "anti-immigrant" commenters on HN. Don't gaslight.
EDIT: I made a mistake, you made the comment two posts above, not in the prior post. That's why I didn't see it when I came to reply; I looked at the immediate parent rather than going back a ways. But it's right there two posts above, you're decrying "anti-immigrant" commenters. When you set up the debate in that way, there's no consideration of the argument on the other side. You just write it off as being somehow hateful or motivated by prejudice. I don't dispute that some people are prejudiced, but that isn't the only basis upon which H1B policy can be judged. There are tens of millions of unemployed people in the USA right now. Suspension of H1B prioritizes those people over foreign nationals. It's not necessarily a question of anti-immigrant sentiment.
Academia and “intellectual” circles in the West are not universally enlightened about the equality of humans (comments here, and on BLM threads on many forums). It doesn’t even appear to be an opinion of the conclusive majority. I was quite shocked and disappointed when I learned this too. People are just that, I suppose.
this is the type of short time thinking that gets you in trouble. you’re not wrong that you’re going to do great for a while but when big tech starts moving operations overseas or in Canada you will see the macro result of this - and you’re not gonna like it
AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries.
Software Engineers have failed to unite like this, so the MS+FAANGs and consulting companies have lobbied for free flow of cheap labor under the guise of innovation. There are no board certifications, no licensing exams, and no restrictions on supply. This is why software salaries have been artificially suppressed for two decades.