Ask HN: Unrecognized Google Cloud charge – scared to chargeback

[throwaway2019V]

Hi all, updated with the same question.

ORIGINAL: I recently found a charge from Google Cloud on my credit card statement (small charge ~$20) that I didn't recognize. Asked friends + family, no one has used my card. Checked GCP and firebase, no usage or charges. I filed a report here (https://payments.google.com/payments/u/0/unauthorizedtransactions#)

And they closed my case stating that it was not an unauthorized charge without stating what the charge was for. Since the case is closed, I have no way to contact them. At this point, I would usually just chargeback the company, but it's Google. I've heard of Amazon shutting off access to their entire platform and products over disputes/chargebacks and I can't afford to do with Google since I have emails and such going back ~15 years.

What would you do in this situation?

UPDATE: I submitted the form again (shortly after my post here) with the same CC charge ID asking for more info, and they closed my case again. I checked my CC statement today and found a new ~$30 charge. But again, I literally checked all my GCP accounts and I can't find any usage anywhere. At this point, should I just cancel my card and chargeback? I'm still scared of retaliation by Google, but I'm also now fearing the possibility that my card's been compromised and I should act instead of counting on receiving a response from Google.

[aprdm]

It is mind blowing that a company as big as google can be that bad at dealing with customers.

Not only that but people are building business on top of a company that can wipe out your digital presence (gmail) because you try to charge back an erroneous charge. Seems to me like living under a constant threat..?

[otagekki]

They are bad at dealing with customers mostly because they can afford to. What is losing one customer when they have 100,000...

[snazz]

* Definitely do a Google Takeout now so that you don't need to worry about your data.

* What does the Cost Breakdown section of Billing in the Google Cloud Console show?

* Have you gotten a PDF invoice emailed to you? This is done for G Suite but not some other charges.

* Is there any activity on pay.google.com?

* Has there been a login to your account that you don't recognize? You might want to change your password just in case.

* EDIT: Is it possible that someone else is using your card with Google as well? Has your card been compromised?

* What are the total number of subscriptions here: https://pay.google.com/gp/w/u/0/home/subscriptionsandservice...

* Do any of those have extremely low charge thresholds? GCP is usually minimum $100.

* If you're absolutely certain that this is not your fault, you probably want to make this an "issue" on your blog or Twitter to try to get an employee to pull some strings. Don't file a chargeback until then.

[saluki]

Report the card as stolen right away so the card can't be charged.

I expect someone else is using your card for their Google account.

Then see if any of your google services report a billing issue asking you to update your card.

Contact the card issuer and see how long you have to file a charge back.

You could file charge back nears the end of that period once you're sure it's not attached to any of your google services.

It's always a good idea to back up your data do a Google Takeout.

But if someone else is using your card and you initiate a charge back it's most likely only going to cause issues for them.

I might even just let those charges go, it is scary dealing with amazon and google with things like this in fear of having your accounts closed.

Safest route would probably be to try to get in contact with google again, put in your message it looks like someone is using my card for their account without my authorization, I don't want to have to request a chargeback, but I would like those charges refunded.

[ViViDboarder]

Generally one has ~90 days to file a chargeback. Should be enough time to cancel it and wait and see which Google service complains.

[bbbbbb12]

Be careful with a chargeback -- Google can challenge the chargeback and will probably win. -- If the chargeback holds, google will consider your account in default. They might sell the debt to a collection agency. [a chargeback does not settle the dispute, it only reverses the payment and the credit card company is no longer involved.]

Has anyone ever cancelled a google cloud account? do they attempt to convince you to stay? If so, there is a slight chance that google might be somewhat helpful to convince you to stay. Some companies have a "Retention Department" that tries to retain customers. [In a different situation, I once had a company refuse to reverse a disputed fee, but the Retention Department offered me a credit if I would keep the account open (the credit was twice the fee!)]

[Nextgrid]

> Google can challenge the chargeback and will probably win

Challenging the dispute would at the very least involve contacting the customer and letting them know what the charge is for, at which point it can be determined whether it's legitimate or not.

> They might sell the debt to a collection agency.

So what? The debt has yet to be determined as legitimate. So far all the information suggests it's fraud and his card has been compromised.

A lot of people seem to be afraid of collection agencies but I've dealt with them multiple times in the UK (thanks to terrible telecom companies) and in both cases they've quickly dropped the case. The interaction with the debt collection agency was actually more pleasant than with the company hiring them.

[bbbbbb12]

... >Challenging the dispute would at the very least involve contacting the customer and letting them know what the charge is for, at which point it can be determined whether it's legitimate or not.

It isn't that easy - The credit card company does not spend much time on the case and will not get involved in examining complicated evidence. Also, the company does not have to contact the customer, the company just submits a statement and possibly a supporting document with a list of charges. I've done two (won one and lost one) The one I lost was based on an illegible receipt.

The writer didn't mention if this was a business or personal credit card. In the US, chargebacks for a business credit card have different rules - If there is an ongoing business relationship, there are no chargebacks, only third party fraud reversals. [I have read the Credit Card Act - many consumer protections are excluded from businesses.]

>So what? The debt has yet to be determined as legitimate....

This depends on the type of collection agency. [I've dealt with two types for my old business and for some friends who needed advice.]

A collection agency that collects on BEHALF of a company will often act as a mediator to figure out what is going on. I dealt with two of these for disputes over debt amounts and both were reasonable. [One was initially very aggressive and started the conversation by filing a lawsuit to "get my attention," but we discussed the situation and worked it out.]

A collection agency that BUYS the debt doesn't care about fairness. They paid a fraction of the debt amount and they want to make money. In one case, I was getting double billed under two account numbers. The collection agent repeatedly lied, harassed and threatened me (carefully scripted to just barely stay legal). I sent copies of the duplicate bills and they didn't care. [I finally got them to back off due to some regulations specific to the type of bill - They knew debt collection law, but the regulations I threw back at them would require them to do a lot of research]

Another problem with a debt that is sold to a collection agency is that when they give up, they often make back some on the money they paid by selling the debt to another agency. Then you start again..... [I was getting collection calls to my new phone number for the previous owner of that number. I would tell them the situation and they would accuse me of lying. When they finally gave up, a few weeks later another collection agency would start calling. This lasted over a year.]

[silo2020]

Really sorry to hear this, but you're screwed. I had a similar situation and was totally ignored like you are.

My only way out was to let the card expire (thankfully, in my case, it was just about to) by totally ignoring the flood of 'renew now or we stop the paid services' emails.

Letting the card expire stopped the charges but also shut down my GC services. I had used the time to migrate things off and abandoned anything that was left (like maps API).

A chargeback will end up with the vicious blocking and deleting of your gmail and everything else you have with Google. If you're going to do that, backup/offload everything you can first as it's all going to be crispy fried by Google the moment you do the chargeback.

Never use Google for anything important that you cannot afford to lose at a moments notice.

[petargyurov]

Perhaps your card info has been stolen and someone is using it for their Google Cloud account.

As a sanity check, do you use other Google services (Drive, Photos)?

I think cancelling your card is the safest bet; I highly doubt GC will immediately terminate your account just because of a failed transaction. After all, failed txs happen all the time. You will probably receive an email to update your card info.

EDIT: I guess the worry is in doing the chargeback - might be best to cancel first, add a new card to your account and then chargeback? Not sure...

[greendestiny_re]

I would create a separate Google account for any paid Google service you plan on using. Also, I would use a disposable payment method, such as a preloaded debit card, that can't be charged what's on the card. Load up the card with $20-30, pay for the service and use it. Fragment your Google identity as much as possible.

[_bxg1]

If you do a chargeback, I would definitely download all Google data you care about first. Is it just your emails, or is your business inextricably tied to Google in some way (an Android app perhaps)? If you can migrate away, I would just do that. Google has a terrible track record in this department.

[ahmedtd]

I work on GCP, but not anything related to billing.

You might have more luck opening a GCP support case, or using the chat support. They may have the ability to help you figure out what's going on, especially if the affected credit card is the one linked to your GCP billing account.