[RobRivera]

>you're fucked

I'm sorry but any anecdotal spinning of history and current events supporting a bold claim about the downfall of western society is just outright non scientific, immeasurable, and quite frankly below educated discourse.

Now if you have a thesis about the sunset of western hegemony backed by reduced gdp numbers, geopolitical influence, and crime stats, thats a more worthwhile discussion.

Call me old fashioned, but passionate cries of wolf really Re just that until you show me the data

[komali2]

I'm not sure what GDP, geopolitical influence, or crime stats have to do with a theory that the values set down in the Constitution are degrading.

[shadowgovt]

Did "you're fucked" mean the Constitution is degrading?

That's, I believe, parent poster's point; without qualifiers, there's no conversation to be had on the topic. Because that is the dichotomy of early 21st-century America: objective measures of "how the country's doing" are at odds with subjective concepts like "Are we free?" You have to start by even coming to agreement that less "freedom" (and one should probably qualify that---freedom from what, freedom to do what) for more GDP, more safety, more prosperity is a bad thing.

[komali2]

> You have to start by even coming to agreement that less "freedom" (and one should probably qualify that---freedom from what, freedom to do what) for more GDP, more safety, more prosperity is a bad thing.

We don't have to agree at all. It is a bad thing. If you think trading freedom for the right to more plutocrat oversight is good, what's the point of even discussing at all?

[shadowgovt]

> what's the point of discussing

Consensus; same as always.

And cross-pollination of ideas.

[cremp]

Going full tinfoil hat...

We've seen the GDP number manipulated during this crisis, Gov propping the economy up with lots of self-debt that we cant pay back.

We've seen that other developed counties in the world bawk at us. Example being the American woman who killed a guy in the UK by driving on the wrong side; and the US said she had diplomatic immunity, when she did not. [0]

Crime stats... Crime isnt crime if it isnt punished or even taken to the courts proper. A sitting president was impeached, but not removed from office. He was charged with high-crimes. If you need a statistic, just look at how stacked the government is from a 2-party system.

I'd completely agree that America is fucked.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

[exclusiv]

> A sitting president was impeached, but not removed from office. He was charged with high-crimes.

> lots of self-debt that we cant pay back.

Neither of those work that way. I agree on the 2-party stacked system though.

[gvjddbnvdrbv]

Her husband did NOT have diplomatic status.

[cremp]

Corrected; Thanks.

Didn't realize the US was that bad.

[exclusiv]

It's just in style to hate on America these days. Been that way for awhile. If you're critical of any other country you get jumped on.

Meanwhile the parent takes an anti-American perspective on the US while finding a way to give China props. Which tells me they are not intellectually honest about what freedom really means or about the injustices that China partakes in.

It's like saying "I don't like that thing you did because I wasn't fully informed of the details or the reasoning. At least China ...."

It's just nonsense from a hater.

Now, we would have actually been fucked a long time ago if we didn't have the Constitution. But it's the best document and framework alive and we'll be fine, despite some challenges to liberty that I don't like either.

What's funny is some non-Western countries have been trying to import their ideals, and having some success with socialism interest, but their own younger people are taking up Western ideals and cultures.

Exporting agendas and propaganda is not feasible in an information age. Many countries are struggling to control their citizens like they used to in the past.

The freer countries will be fine and win out.