[JSavageOne]

100% prefer remote work (not to be confused with WFH. Remote work != WFH). It's not necessarily the WFH aspect actually, it's more the "live anywhere you want" part, not having to commute, and the "avoiding all the office bullshit" aspects.

Regarding location: I don't have roots in SF/NYC/Seattle where all the well-paying tech jobs are, and have no desire to make any of those cities my home. Lived in NYC 5 years, that was enough for me. Visited SF for a weekend for an interview, was appalled by the blatant homelessness on the streets. I'm not really interested in living anywhere long-term where a "starter home" goes for $1m, especially a boring suburb like Mountain View or Menlo Park (to be fair I've never visited, but I grew up in the suburbs of DC and U.S. suburbs just aren't my thing). While working remotely, I've been able to travel the world, and more recently settle down in a (first-world) country where my cost of living is no more than 1/3 of what it was in NYC, with increased quality of life.

Regarding the office bullshit part - every office job I've ever had has office bullshit. You're expected to be there between 10:30am-5:30pm, or whatever the mandated hours are, passive aggressively enforced by some dreaded morning standup where for some reason the time is non-negotiable. You can bust your ass off for the first 4 hours of the day (probably the limit of productive work before reaching diminishing returns). Then it's 2:30pm and you've done a day's work but your brain is fried so you know you're not going to be productive, but you can't just leave early because then your PM and co-workers on other teams will think you're a slacker, and the executives will be concerned that their secretaries, oops I mean "executive assistants", who get paid a fraction of your salary despite working longer hours, will start to get jealous. So you have to figure out a way to burn the next 3 hours, maybe have your IDE up in one monitor while reading HN in another.

Meanwhile when I WFH, when I know I'm not going to be productive, I just do something else and don't have to put on this facade of looking like I'm being productive 8 hours/day. As a night owl I'll get into a flow state and pull an all-nighter one day, and then take the next day off. I don't set an alarm clock before I go to sleep because I'm more productive when I'm well-rested.

Also open offices suck. Maybe I wouldn't be so appalled by office jobs as much if we at least got our own cubicles. As fun as it is to make fun of cubicles, they're a hell of a lot more comfortable then being on an assembly line of desks in a giant coliseum. Though no matter where your office is, it eventually gets boring. Variety is always good, and remote work gives you that freedom.

[rainyMammoth]

Couldn't agree more. Offices are needed for "controlling" reasons. Bosses and middle manager types want to make sure you are around doing your thing.

You also need to realize that offices are not made to be productive but are made so that people can escape their daily life: Kids at home, or wife that you don't want to see anymore. Just check all the people with kids that cannot wait to go back to the office.

[dannyw]

That’s so cynical.

Offices are made to be productive, including by aggregating everyone into one physical place and fitting it out with functional, ergonomic and productive equipment — beyond your desk, it also includes whiteboards, meeting rooms, and even the water cooler.

It’s also a place of team and social bonding. Am I the only one that misses drinks with my colleagues, or dinner at a local restaurant after work?

[JSavageOne]

> Am I the only one that misses drinks with my colleagues, or dinner at a local restaurant after work?

Most companies I've worked at everyone just goes home after work, and there was little camaraderie. People generally didn't even grab lunch together, just ate at their desks. At every job I've had there are at most 2-3 people I continue to stay in contact with afterwards. At some companies there were maybe monthly happy hours, which at some companies were fun, but that would basically the extent of it. I did really enjoy participating on one office's sports teams, but only big companies have that.

Office life certainly would have been way more enjoyable if I had more friends in the office, but the atmosphere at most of the companies I worked at just wasn't conducive to that. I wonder if I just had bad luck in working at companies with little social atmosphere, or if my experience is the norm.

I think that a big reason for this is the politically correct nature of the office. In university for example you can say whatever the hell you want, so one can more freely express themselves and find their group. But in offices, you're expected to exhibit professionalism and not offend anyone. So basically you can't talk about politics or anything controversial - basically anything actually interesting, limiting conversation to boring small-talk and making it hard to make real connections/friends. I mean if I spoke anything I just wrote about in an office that'd be sacrilege and I'd probably be fired the next week.

[rainyMammoth]

> Offices are made to be productive

I would invite you to revisit that assumption. Offices are made to FEEL productive. Who decides on getting an office? All the research shows that open spaces are a huge fad and make people on average less productive (for work that require deeper stretch of concentration).

> Am I the only one that misses drinks with my colleagues, or dinner at a local restaurant after work?

I am missing those things but as you said yourself they are AFTER WORK

[dannyw]

Open offices cost less. Real estate in SF, NYC, etc are incredibly expensive.

So is that really a surprise?

[pythonaut_16]

Kinda sounds like you're arguing both sides of the issue.

Offices are meant to be productive, but real estate in SF, NYC, etc makes it too expensive to design offices for productivity.

[rainyMammoth]

You are making my point. If offices were made to be productive, open offices would NOT be a thing.

The fact that companies still pay $$$ for an office in the bay area is for management purposes and making sure that employees are "buts in seats" for 40+ hours a week

[whateveracct]

The office exists to ensure that you commit 40+ hrs/week to the company. Whether that time is productive or not isn't the point. All that matters is the company owns that time.

You can work remotely and commit literally half that amount of time to the company and maintain the same output. That's 20+ hrs/week of loss you've now reclaimed for yourself.

You can spend some of those 20+ hrs on social activities and events. I made plenty of friends at local video game tournaments. We actually have common interests compared to an office where you're stuck with whomever happens to work there.