[asabjorn]

That is absolute nonsense. Did the 7 states that never locked down or the ones reopening weeks ago actually do so without it turning into the dire scenario the models predicted? Wasn’t the self directed mitigation’s and targeted quarantine in those areas sufficient?

Is the size of the coronavirus 0.06 to 0.14 microns, while the N95 masks we use filter 95% of particles larger than 0.3 microns? Will a chain link fence stop mosquitoes? Does the virus survive on cardboard/plastic/metal inside surfaces for extended periods making them spread vectors?

There was nothing voluntary about these lockdowns of people and shutdown of businesses. That is a pipe dream on your end. Quarantine is when you restrict the movement of sick people. Tyranny is when you restrict the movement of healthy people.

Regardless of if tyrants that share your viewpoint want it or not enough of us in the few remaining locked down states will use our constitutional rights to move on to cause a tipping point. We will open our businesses, go to work, hang out with friends and live life. We will fight alongside fellow Americans that are facing tyrants when exercising these rights, and we will work tirelessly to identify and remove tyrants in power.

I wish you and your loved ones good health. May God protect us both from tyranny and injustice.

[unclebucknasty]

@asabjorn, can't reply directly either, so will wrap up here.

In short, you move the goalposts when your arguments are deconstructed. It's exhausting and never-ending because you appear to be determined that this is about tyranny and will force the data to reach that conclusion.

The pseudoscience veneer has all but completely worn through. You're just lobbing it in now.

1) Your N95 mask arguments are sliding. You've now allowed that even normal breath droplets are larger than the 0.3 "threshold" you'd previously set in your simple mosquito-fence comparison. So, now you're just frantically shoveling in more numbers. It's gotten cartoonish. I won't continue to correct your storm of never-ending misinterpreted data. Bottom line: while obviously imperfect, N95 masks afford protection.

2) >I never claimed no reopened state will see some increases in covid cases, some do and some don't

Unbelievable. You're walking back the entire thrust of your argument across multiple comments and acting as if you still have a point. You initially claimed lockdowns were proven ineffective so all of our energy should've been put into protecting the vulnerable. That's what started this. The words came out of your mouth. It's right up there in your GP posts.

You just gave up the entire basis for your argument and kept typing like nothing happened. This is either willful delusion or bad faith.

Previously, it was this so-called ineffectiveness that was your basis for calling for an end to unnecessary lockdowns. Now, we see that was never the point.

All veneer.

3) You're now doing to the law what you did with science. But, I won't engage in a philosophical legal discussion with you, given your mischaracterization of even hard facts.

4) Those of us who still believe in the rule of law take you seriously and we take seriously those who've gotten in your heads to push our nation towards collapse for their own benefit. But, we will not be terrorized. What the 2A "revolutionary" drones fail to see is that they've been wholly manipulated and the unrest they seek will be met with a response that renders their assault rifles useless.

[unclebucknasty]

We're getting to the point where I'm having to argue that water is wet, so I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling me at this point. And, now that you've played the "tyranny" card, it's easy to read your mischaracterizations as deliberate pseudoscientific pretense in the service of something else.

Still, I will answer in good faith.

Are the droplets on which the virus is carried all exactly .06 to 0.14 microns? No. They are as large as 5 to 10 microns. If you really aren't understanding how you're misinterpreting some of this information, then it's why I am unable to persuade you. I could point you to more info, including back to some that you linked, but you don't suffer from a lack of info. Your errors are in interpretation.

The report you linked shows increases in some reopened states. Where's your explanation for that? Just compare them to NYC? Of course every locale is not NYC, with its density, etc. Using that as some sort of benchmark is a strawman.

I never said the lockdown was voluntary. I said many are still voluntarily staying at home in states that have reopened, which will skew the numbers towards the lockdown numbers, depending on degree. So, here you're simply putting words in my mouth. Another strawman.

I also pointed to the fact that many are only partially reopened, which you yourself acknowledged. But, you just gloss over the limiting impact of that on the numbers. So, where's the line between "tyranny" and common sense here? How "partial" is OK? And, do you get this angry and threatened over vaccines, seat belt laws and helmet laws? Did you grab an AR-15 and head downtown to "fight" over those?

Every one of the arguments in your comment is based on an error in interpretation or outright misrepresentation. Every one.

Look, I don't like being stuck at home, but I understand it. If there's a "fight" here, it's against ignorance and fear-mongering over some make-believe tyranny, starring Fauci as some sort of devious, Palpatine-like deep state operative gunning for our freedom, while posing as a concerned septuagenarian scientist who happened to also lead the charge against HIV. It's pure fantasy. You see this right?

If you'll allow just a little daylight, step back and consider the outright absurdity of this tyranny narrative and see it for what it is, then you have to ask where this narrative is coming from, who benefits from it and what's the effect?

Because, I submit to you that what's far more frightening is the war on facts and Americans with assault rifles in our streets with the idea that they are some kind of freedom fighters in resisting public servants--and threatening them with death--who are simply trying to keep Americans safe. Someone's getting into the heads of some of our fellow citizens and pushing them toward the brink of something truly catastrophic here. These are nothing more than thugs in the streets, deployed in the service of something or someone, and made to believe they are heroes for threatening violence and disobeying any laws with which they disagree.

That is the end of rule of law, and it is the only real danger to our freedom here.

[asabjorn]

You accuse me of misrepresenting while doing it yourself and provide outliers to justify your point:

1) N95 effectiveness:

Edit: parent seem correct that it protect others against sneezes as long as it doesn’t leak out through sides due to sneeze velocity. See NIH links below [2,4].

However, if a person have virus particles on mask and touch it before touching other surfaces the mask may be a liability.

Then again, it seems more effective to isolate the sick than put masks on all.

2) I said that the dire scenario used to justify lockdown or the one in NYC, has not been seen in any reopened or never locked down states. I also said isolating the vulnerable seem sufficient.

I never claimed no reopened state will see some increases in covid cases, some do and some don't. I also did not say that the 7 states that never closed down experienced no covid scenario, but that they showed isolating the vulnerable was sufficient.

3) Lockdown measures have deprived rights under the color of law [3], violating rule of law, and enough of us will support each other to take full recourse under the law. The law I cited [3] show that the officials enforcing unconstitutional measures risk jail.

Enough of us will not accept when governors retaliate after loosing court cases [7], or when judges try to enforce unconstitutional lockdowns [8] or take on a prosecutorial role [5,6]. Or fine or jail people for exercising their constitutional rights. This is the definition of lack of rule of law. You are on the wrong side of history.

4) Yes, we will exercise our first amendment right to freedom of speech and if that fails we will exercise our second amendment right/responsibility to protect our liberty. Again, you are the one arguing against how the American democracy works.

[1] https://respiratory-research.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1...

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3785820/

[3] https://www.justice.gov/crt/deprivation-rights-under-color-l...

[4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10168531

[5] https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1260714837316960258

[6] https://www.wsj.com/articles/judges-are-umpires-not-ringmast...

[7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jowoEFpy-Kk

[8] https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/06/texas-dallas-salon-o...

[asabjorn]

On #1: I continued researching after the interesting evidence from parent.

To anyone interested this is an overview of multiple studies of N95 usage and it’s efficiency in stopping covid spread [1].

TLDR; The results for flu studies show no conclusive efficiency, there are no covid studies, and many studies show negative health effects of the healthy using masks; breathing in virus through nasal passage causing infection to spread where it otherwise wouldn’t, hypoxia causing lower immune response and other negative health effects, etc

[1] https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-seriou...