[uk_programmer]

I don't see it that way though. I have many relatives that are government scroungers. Some of them are criminals. These people just don't want to work and will do anything they can to not work. No amount of coaching will help them. They spend their time getting drunk and high (usually around their own children) which will produce another generation that think it is okay to be scroungers.

I understand these people very well (I grew up with them). I find that those that advocate for these types of programs that you refer to, to be very naive or willingly ignorant.

[teekert]

They probably get their money and food from petty crime? Like some of my family at some point. Would be nice if that could be avoided by giving them some money instead of them taking it from random shops. We should bare the burden together.

[ThrowawayR2]

They would likely take the money and continue their criminal activity anyway, no?

[uk_programmer]

> We should bare the burden together.

No. I am fed up of this pathological altruism. They should be looking for employment. End of discussion.

[teekert]

It's not altruism, I'm being perfectly rationally selfish, I just prefer to help those in need and give the bad people money to stay away from me while not wasting any time and money to make the distinction.

[uk_programmer]

I love how people can post-rationalise that right is wrong. It is very clever, but you are being dishonest with yourself.

It is simply wrong to take from others who work to those who cannot be bothered to work. Everything you do afterwards is trying rationalise your desire for UBI because you believe it to be virtuous.

[teekert]

But it's not "taking" if I, as a working person, gladly pay my government to keep my society pleasant.