[Funes-]

I don't think setting up a timer on the very device that is distracting you will significantly help you stay away from it, especially on psychological terms. I reckon it will make you dependent on your phone as well, but in a different sense.

In my opinion, the development of deeply-rooted discipline and self-control must primarily--even exclusively--come from one's will, at all times and at all levels, in order to be successful. Otherwise, what are you going to do if you cannot access the app for whatever reason? We need to aspire to have a firm will, not a straightened one (by whomever or whatever external).

[keenmaster]

Was Odysseus a fool for tying himself to a mast to avoid the temptation of the sirens?

An underrated element of self-control is designing your environment to achieve the outcomes you want.

[afterburner]

I mean, if it was the mast tempting him, it might have been ill-advised...

[Funes-]

You do realize that you're comparing the literally insurmountable chant of a fictional, fantastic entity to something that can be overcome, right? I know it's an analogy, but I don't think it can possibly apply here.

Of course adding friction to bad habits is generally going to make it harder for you to indulge in them, the same way that removing friction can make it easier to engage in healthy habits. Nonetheless, the primary element of self-control must always come from oneself, in the moment. I know, since I've gone out of my way to remove many "blocking" systems too many times.

[keenmaster]

You're right, it's not a perfect analogy. Odysseus had a simple, binary action he could take to avoid the sirens altogether, and that action did not otherwise hinder his journey. You can't say the same about the social & leisure parts of the internet (social media, Netflix, MMOs, etc...). One example: Screen Time on iOS does not completely block the specified websites and apps. It politely suggests that you stop wasting your time. Odysseus had it easy.

One can replace their smartphone with a basic flip phone, but that would forsake all the good uses of the smartphone. This is where we get into the nature of free will. How much free will does the average person really have in the face of these addicting platforms? They're all designed specifically to preempt your self-control. Moreover, because they drove so many people to abandon their self-control, they normalized binging. It is part of our cultural fabric. The sirens aren't alien mermaids, they're our friends.

People need the freedom to say No. No, I don't need any more than 30 minutes of social media a day. No, I don't ever want to watch more than 1 episode per day during the workweek on Netflix. Etc... These commitments need to be binding, and the marginal cost of dropping them should be higher than the marginal benefit in all but the most legitimate scenarios. You're free to say "no" now, but it's an empty commitment without technological controls that do not currently exist.

My final thought relates to the availability bias. Leisure is more available than ever. Almost anything you want is a tap away. In contrast, productivity goals are notoriously unavailable. Sure, you can break your work into tiny steps, but those steps become increasingly abstract and divorced from the end result, which may nonetheless be 6 months away. You'll also consistently underestimate the damage, length, and frequency of "one more break" and overestimate your ability to reach that goal in 6 months at your current pace (overconfidence effect). We have a lot to gain from making leisure less attainable and productivity more tangible.

[Finnucane]

I think what it means is not 'away from phone' but 'away from social media distractions'. Hence the name. But yeah, you shouldn't need an app to take you away from other apps. You could just turn off those apps.

[chrisshroba]

I disagree - often adding a barrier to entry can help a lot. For example, I've found Forest app [1] to be successful at stopping me from using my phone as a time waster when I start to seek a distraction.

[1] https://www.forestapp.cc/

[Funes-]

You've posted twice on this thread, and both comments contained that link. That's getting very close to spamming.

[sonicggg]

That's my argument against two - factor authentication, which is spreading like herpes across workplaces. I like having my phone off and far from me during work hours, but 2FA made it impossible.

[Kalium]

The security gains of multi-factor authentication are significant. They are so large that choosing to forego them might at this point in time be deemed negligence. That said, you're absolutely correct that it's wildly unreasonable that so many of them require you to make use of your personal phone - which you are wisely and responsibly trying to ignore

Fortunately, there are a lot of good ways to do 2FA that don't rely on your personal phone! A second device, physical RSA tokens, and U2F keys are all viable options that let you both be responsible by ignoring your phone and be safer. Some password managers will also do your TOTP code generation.

[paedubucher]

That's why I started using a second phone just for the Google Authenticator App at the workplace. If your authentication does not rely on SMS, you don't even need a SIM card.

[cercatrova]

Could you run an emulator that uses an authenticator app? Or you could get a physical authenticator fob perhaps.

[mandelbrotwurst]

An imperfect solution for you might be a cheap device that you only use for 2FA.

[jolleyboy]

I feel like this argument is equivalent to discouraging someone from training for a marathon on a treadmill.

[SyrupThinker]

To me the argument is the equivalent of trying to stop eating fast food by asking a friend to come over everyday with fast food.

[w0m]

the problem isn't the fast-food, but the health of the fast food. proper comparison would be trying to stop eating fast food by only having healthy food around the house.

[SyrupThinker]

My interpretation of grandparent is that the app is probably another distraction in itself. So, I'm not sure what the healthy food in your analogy is. I guess I failed to provide a clear analogy for grandparent (assuming I interpreted them right).