I will happily pay 45% tax on my salary knowing the Gov has my back in difficult times like these. I'm fortunate enough to still have a job, but I'm happy I live in Europe.
I'd be shocked is most people on this page who are fully employed devs/techs/etc in the US do not already donate roughly 45% to the government. SS and Federal, plus state (3% for me, and almost 4% for local), now that's just on income, not anything you spend. Again, here we go. 9% sales tax in my municipality, plus individualized taxes on a variety of goods the government deems bad. This includes markups on booze, tobacco, sugary drinks, then we have car registrations, gas taxes, yearly renewal of misc fees like the license for our dog, drivers license ID renewals, then property tax, taxes on utilities like telecom, then we have run of the mill court things like speeding which are 45 tickets that balloon into 200 dollar ones when you add all the fees on top. Fees to file things you are required to file for. yes. I bet if we took a full accounting of the taxes we all actually pay in a lump sum, it's closer to 45%.
If you consider your healthcare spending as part of your overall tax package (so as to make the comparison apples-to-applies with other countries which mandate that), the picture looks even less rosy.
> I'd be shocked is most people on this page who are fully employed devs/techs/etc in the US do not already donate roughly 45% to the government.
Yeah, but 45% would be federal income tax only in Europe. Social Security, pensions, sales tax etc pp would be on top, and are generally also considerably higher than in the US.
Sales tax is on top of course, but social security and state provided pension is included in the 40% to 52% here (the percentage depends on total yearly income)
We pay between 0 and 100 euro per month for health insurance, which covers basically everything with a very low co-pay amount (like 150 euros per year max)
Student loans are also much much lower. We pay 1600 euros per year tuition, the rest is government paid.
So the 40% may sound very high, but if you look at what is included compared to what the middle class in the US spends on student loans and healthcare I think we're not much worse off over here.
> Sales tax is on top of course, but social security and state provided pension is included in the 40% to 52% here (the percentage depends on total yearly income)
Likely depends on the country. It's not in Germany, and 45% is the highest tax bracket which few people will reach, but 43% is very achievable and you'll find plenty of knowledge workers in that bracket as it starts at ~55k €. Add ~20% sales tax, very high taxes on power and fuel etc.
The social net has a very high price, we need to stop prancing around the facts. I still think it's largely worth it (although it does contain very strong moral hazards), but I don't believe in hiding the truth so people don't come to different conclusions.
Indeed very country dependent. Netherlands is 50% (used to be 52) starting around € 55k. That sounds higher than Germany, but then in our case social security and an allowance for elderly is included. So in the end I guess the part of your income you pay is similar in most European countries it's just structured differently. And indeed, it's a very big part.
The US has a low income tax, but then the middle class needs to pay for their own health insurance (at $ 600 a month), disability insurance and pension etc. which means they end up not far different from Europe.
The big difference is at the extremes of the scale, the very poor and the very rich. In the US the poor don't have any health insurance, disability insurance, or pension etc because they cannot afford it. And the very rich in the US are way better off than they would be in Europe, because for them a low income tax greatly outweighs the costs of insurance etc.
There is a first layer on companies having to pay 25% of salaries to taxes, then a second layer of 25%, then a third layer of income tax 0 to 30% depending on total sum and how many dependents.
So all employees are already above 44% taxes before income tax :D
I’m only willing to pay the minimum rate that people richer (including wealth) pay. Which is probably around 0%. I think that’s fair, and as long as it stays fair I’m also willing to pay more (20, 40, 50% - as long as noone richer than me is paying less). Taxes as they are now (with exemptions for capital gains) are completely unacceptable to me.
Because government is an easy way to work together on big problems. Things like charity are great, but the participation rate tends to be a whole lot lower than you can get from taxes.
The OP was praising high taxes. If he paid lower tax, he would have more money to spend, also on helping others. Do you think it's ethical to force people into charity?
Simple. I trust the British government to do the right thing more than I trust the likes of HSBC, Microsoft, Google, Unilever and any other company that's built by greedy people whose sole concern is generating profits for themselves and their shareholders.
Wait. Do you think it's the right thing now for the FED, ECB and other central banks to print money day and night and eradicate savings of hard working people via inflation?
I'm not sure why you bring up those companies in response to my proposal of managing your own money. But since you mention how purely evil those companies are, last time I checked they were employing real people, working on real products and services, supporting their families and contributing to the economy. I'm not a fan of big corp, bit it's not so black and white.
I didn't use the word evil so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I pay less than 45% of my income in tax to the government. With the rest I invest a large chunk in the private sector anyway. So I know it's not black and white. But in times like these I'm glad I invest in the government.
The government is already doing that for me. My tax contributions go towards pension, healthcare, public services... I don't have to worry about taking a bank loan to go to the hospital or what I'm going to do when I retire.
I used to take things for granted, now news like "I have to pay $30k for Corona virus hospital treatment" make me appreciate being born in "socialist" Europe. To each their own.
Do you think the government is managing your money better than you would? Aren't you concerned that big part of it funds the bureaucratic apparatus itself? Aren't you concerned that you are not paying for your own retirement and in our aging Europe 30 years from now there will be not enough working people to pay for yours? Don't you think that paying a lower tax (e.g. 25%) would leave you with more money to cover that 30keur for yourself or generously help others?