[calvinmorrison]

I'd be shocked is most people on this page who are fully employed devs/techs/etc in the US do not already donate roughly 45% to the government. SS and Federal, plus state (3% for me, and almost 4% for local), now that's just on income, not anything you spend. Again, here we go. 9% sales tax in my municipality, plus individualized taxes on a variety of goods the government deems bad. This includes markups on booze, tobacco, sugary drinks, then we have car registrations, gas taxes, yearly renewal of misc fees like the license for our dog, drivers license ID renewals, then property tax, taxes on utilities like telecom, then we have run of the mill court things like speeding which are 45 tickets that balloon into 200 dollar ones when you add all the fees on top. Fees to file things you are required to file for. yes. I bet if we took a full accounting of the taxes we all actually pay in a lump sum, it's closer to 45%.

[HappySweeney]

If you consider your healthcare spending as part of your overall tax package (so as to make the comparison apples-to-applies with other countries which mandate that), the picture looks even less rosy.

[luckylion]

> I'd be shocked is most people on this page who are fully employed devs/techs/etc in the US do not already donate roughly 45% to the government.

Yeah, but 45% would be federal income tax only in Europe. Social Security, pensions, sales tax etc pp would be on top, and are generally also considerably higher than in the US.

[t0mas88]

Sales tax is on top of course, but social security and state provided pension is included in the 40% to 52% here (the percentage depends on total yearly income)

We pay between 0 and 100 euro per month for health insurance, which covers basically everything with a very low co-pay amount (like 150 euros per year max)

Student loans are also much much lower. We pay 1600 euros per year tuition, the rest is government paid.

So the 40% may sound very high, but if you look at what is included compared to what the middle class in the US spends on student loans and healthcare I think we're not much worse off over here.

[luckylion]

> Sales tax is on top of course, but social security and state provided pension is included in the 40% to 52% here (the percentage depends on total yearly income)

Likely depends on the country. It's not in Germany, and 45% is the highest tax bracket which few people will reach, but 43% is very achievable and you'll find plenty of knowledge workers in that bracket as it starts at ~55k €. Add ~20% sales tax, very high taxes on power and fuel etc.

The social net has a very high price, we need to stop prancing around the facts. I still think it's largely worth it (although it does contain very strong moral hazards), but I don't believe in hiding the truth so people don't come to different conclusions.

[t0mas88]

Indeed very country dependent. Netherlands is 50% (used to be 52) starting around € 55k. That sounds higher than Germany, but then in our case social security and an allowance for elderly is included. So in the end I guess the part of your income you pay is similar in most European countries it's just structured differently. And indeed, it's a very big part.

The US has a low income tax, but then the middle class needs to pay for their own health insurance (at $ 600 a month), disability insurance and pension etc. which means they end up not far different from Europe.

The big difference is at the extremes of the scale, the very poor and the very rich. In the US the poor don't have any health insurance, disability insurance, or pension etc because they cannot afford it. And the very rich in the US are way better off than they would be in Europe, because for them a low income tax greatly outweighs the costs of insurance etc.

[user5994461]

For reference in France.

There is a first layer on companies having to pay 25% of salaries to taxes, then a second layer of 25%, then a third layer of income tax 0 to 30% depending on total sum and how many dependents.

So all employees are already above 44% taxes before income tax :D

[onetimemanytime]

>>I bet if we took a full accounting of the taxes we all actually pay in a lump sum, it's closer to 45%.

In other countries then it may be 65% if you count gas taxes etc etc. VAT (sales tax) is 20+% in a lot of countries

[grecy]

> I bet if we took a full accounting of the taxes we all actually pay in a lump sum, it's closer to 45%.

Yep, and you don't get healthcare for that, or post high school education.